Because a 140mm 26″ trail bike has never won, or got near winning a DH race.

You do talk some shit.

Less than 140mm 26er, on a similar race.

http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Jared-Graves-and-Jill-Kintner-win-2012-Sea-Otter-Downhill,3603/Prototype-Yeti-Ridden-by-Jared-Graves-at-2012-Sea-Otter-Classic,33319/sspomer,2

http://www.dirtragmag.com/webrag/sea-otter-downhill-right-tool-win2

Because a 140mm 26″ trail bike has never won, or got near winning a DH race.

Ah, OK. You’ll have to excuse my ignorance, I don’t really follow DH racing and I’m not too well up on the spec of various bike.
A Stumpjumper is a 140mm travel XC 29er then ?

So, which is more remarkable, that the race was won on a bike with 3″ bigger wheels or 60mm less suspension travel ?

Unless any sport moves on and develops it dies. DH is no different and sometimes it takes a change of kit to spark off a period of change or development. It might well be the case that DH courses are changed to suit 29ers or more Enduro bikes. I don’t see how having more pedally sections included should ruin the event. They are bikes at the end of the day. Ultimately the people who run the sport need to attract spectators to attract sponsors which happens to include the main manufacturers. If the event organisers and sponsors decide this is the way to go, then it will happen and I’m sure the sport will flourish at the end of the day.

The fact of the matter is, wether you look at the courses in the world cup series, the features on them or the times set. Any ‘lay-man’ wont deal with them anywhere near as well (if at all) like the pro’s. So you can say this course suits this bike better or that bit couldnt be done on 29er, but the only chage you’ll notice is some of the top10 swapping a few places, just like if they pick the wrong tire or catch a root. Makes no difference to racing at the end of the day.

In my opinion, baring bad luck with mechanicals, the fittest and most skilful rider usually wins. They’re likely to be riding whatever wheel size their sponsor is currently pushing.

+1.

Hit the nail on the head.

Makes no difference to racing at the end of the day.

Oh but it does, Stato.

If you add clown wheels to pyjamas, you may as well go to the circus instead 😉

In my opinion, baring bad luck with mechanicals, the fittest and most skilful rider usually wins. They’re likely to be riding whatever wheel size their sponsor is currently pushing.

+2. It’s a little obvious, but a talented rider will win whatever they ride. This has been proven time and again.

You do talk some shit.

Less than 140mm 26er, on a similar race.

Have you ridden those courses? I doubt it.

The Sea Otter DH isn’t anything like a DH or anything else for that matter. It’s pathetic. Fontana is another world. As the photo on the MBA site shows.

Ah, OK. You’ll have to excuse my ignorance, I don’t really follow DH racing and I’m not too well up on the spec of various bike.
A Stumpjumper is a 140mm travel XC 29er then ?
So, which is more remarkable, that the race was won on a bike with 3″ bigger wheels or 60mm less suspension travel ?

The remarkable thing is the wheels, and the resulting geometry changes the wheels can give, enable a 140mm trailbike to win such a race.

Yeah…..

+2. It’s a little obvious, but a talented rider will win whatever they ride. This has been proven time and again.

How come the worlds fastest DH rider didn’t win then?

Yeah…..

What am I supposed to be looking at? I’ve ridden it. It’s barely a slope.

But do keep going with your guessing games.

What am I supposed to be looking at? I’ve ridden it. It’s barely a slope.

That’ll be Fontana……

How come the worlds fastest DH rider didn’t win then?

Well, he obviously didn’t take the right bike. The clue is in the win; it didn’t win because it had 29″ wheels. It won because it was a more suitable bike for the course (lighter, less travel, more efficient pedalling) on a very very pedally course. Mitch Ropelato is also no slouch. But you’ll never see anything other than what you want to whilst you’re wearing those blinkers.

Out of interest…. with a view from those that like 29ers and ride (or would like) a Covert 29er, Tallboy LT, Mythic Banshee, Specialized Enduro for their riding why do we think 29ers aren’t in DH format yet? Is it because they can’t engineer the level of travel without getting a stupidly long bike? The wheels, despite Enve wonders, just aren’t strong/stiff enough to cope with the rough DH courses? Smaller riders would find the reduced maneuverability an issue in tight twisty sections? Bigger riders would find the same problem and therefore they’re not really suited for the application?

For the record I’m pro 29er personally. At 6ft 3 i’ve found them to be a revelation for me but i do think for the more aggro end of riding it could be height dependent as i have no issues moving the wheels around on the ground, in the air, wherever.

I’d also like to add that i couldn’t care less what wheel size gwin etc ride, i just like watching people go very fast over rough terrain. Could be quite fun if some are on 29ers, 26ers etc.

Have you ridden those courses? I doubt it.

Have you?

Because a 140mm 26″ trail bike has never won, or got near winning a DH race.

😆

Have you ridden those courses? I doubt it.

The Sea Otter DH isn’t anything like a DH or anything else for that matter. It’s pathetic. Fontana is another world. As the photo on the MBA site shows.

You could just admit you were talking nonsense, having been directly proved wrong. People have won DH races on Orange Fives here BTW.

The remarkable thing is the wheels, and the resulting geometry changes the wheels can give, enable a 140mm trailbike to win such a race.

Wow, that’s amazing – what’s your evidence for such a bold claim?

I only opened this thread to see if the usual 26/29 suspects would be doing their thing. They are, and i won myself a prize (a kit-kat chunky). Thanks chaps, it was lovely.

I have a stumpy evo (26) and would happily race dh on it. I doubt i’d win, but i wouldn’t be last.

For the record, I’m not anti 29er. I just don’t agree that they are “better”.
IDGAF what anyone rides.

JCL
The remarkable thing is the wheels, and the resulting geometry changes the wheels can give, enable a 140mm trailbike to win such a race.

This is what I’ve gathered as well, that a 29er normally will get away with less travel than a comparable 26er in the same terrain. Is it just down to being able to run suspension harder because the wheels themselves take out more of the chatter, or is there more to it than that?

wrecker – Member

For the record, I’m not anti 29er. I just don’t agree that they are “better”.

They are waaay more than simply being better. They destroy them (with laser beams i presume)

FRIKKIN’ LAAAAZER BEAMS!!!

For the record, I’m not anti 29er. I just don’t agree that they are “better”.
IDGAF what anyone rides.

It’s bettererer when your talking about bigger wheels 🙂

Paceman – Member
pussywillow – Member
Makes me wonder….wouldn’t surprise me if they start to tailor the courses to suit 29ers..ie more flat pedally sections…the way the industry is going it really would not surprise me!
Have you actually ridden a decent 29er FS Trail Bike?? Flat trails suit smaller wheels, bigger wheels eat rock gardens and roots. I’m not suggesting they’re suitable for DH racing, but seriously you’re talking rubbish.
POSTED 3 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST[/

If a clown bike was being ridden hard by a top dhiller through a technical rock garden, there would be nothing left of his flimsy big wheel, So there for the rock garden would have eaten his wheel.

Oh and I have ridden a circus bike before but I didn’t right enjoy the feeling of riding a barge gate
😆

An XC race was won in the US on a CX bike a few years ago. A protest ride as much as anything, saying the course wasn’t technical enough.

CX bikes didn’t take off in XC riding after that, but they do suit the odd ride here and there, pretty quick in the right situation..

Oh and I have ridden a circus bike before but I didn’t right enjoy the feeling of riding a barge gate

You might want to take a look at your riding skills then Pussywillow, perhaps a skills course would help you.

You might want to take a look at your riding skills then Pussywillow, perhaps a skills course would help you.

LOL. That is a hilariously transparent comment. He may be awesome on a bike for all you know. Some people just don’t like 29ers. Get over it.

I’m still not convinced 29″ wheels for DH would be ideal everywhere, but they’ve got some clear performance advantages for certain aspects of what any MTB might be required to do including a DH bike.

TBH I’m Pretty sure that even if 29ers do manage few wins in DH events they won’t replace 26″ completely.

It’s been talked about for the last couple of years by various people and monkeying with wheel sizes to gain a competitive advantage is something I’m sure any sensible team with the resources will be considering right now, a bit less travel and a bit more wheel might be the way to go, at least in some instances…

27.5″ / 650b for all my derision of it would probably perform reasonably for DH, but then why go developing a whole range of new equipment with all the compatibility issues and gamble of consumer uptake around a slightly bigger wheel for DH.
I mean you are basically talking about adding an extra 19mm radially on a wheel, I can see more scope in refining 26″ DH tyres (already an ongoing activity) or jumping whole sale on the 29er wagon…

Intense are trying out a 650b DH bike this year apparently, but I’d be interested to see the commercial viability of such a bike if it’s not Podiuming at a few higher profile races, I don’t think the DH kiddies will splurge Ma ‘n’ Pa’s 5k+ on one without some WC wins to point to as justification…

What I can see happening in the next couple of searons perhaps is WC level riders considering a front end swap for each course:

Sticking with the same 26″ wheeled frame and perhaps switching between a 26″ front wheel and fork for more technical courses and losing ~40mm of travel to run a 29″ front wheel/fok and maintain similar geometry on faster smoother courses where a reduction in rolling resistance up front means less rider fatigue and hopefully a bit more energy for Pedal strokes in the bottom section.

It would be a pretty quick switch TBH drop the fork out of the crowns, fit the alternative fork, attach wheel and brake and go. perhaps coupled with a better rolling 26″ rear tyre and maybe a slightly firmer shock, if you can make a bike suit a given course better and optimize the riders chances, then why wouldn’t you?

+2. It’s a little obvious, but a talented rider will win whatever they ride. This has been proven time and again.

And when all the riders are very similarly talented, trained and experienced? Then the equipment (and that’s all the bike really is) starts to become more a more important factor again.

It’s not the be all end all, but equipment choices do contribute to the result.

Why do you think many of us are riding slacker angled bikes now?
Because back in the early to mid 00’s WC DH riders started asking for more stable bikes that placed the wheel further in front for steep sections to stop the old “tucking under” sensation.

Trickle down to the consumer now means it’s generally accepted and understood that “Slacker is better” for DH riding, and you can go out and buy a ~61 deg HA DH bike if you want, a decade or so ago people would have laughed at that number, but I’m sure some people would ask if it can take a slackset now…

DH is far too young a sport to have developed stupid “traditions” that dictate what you can / can’t use, it’s not Road racing FFS…

when i posted this yesterday, i thought it might have been an april fools.
the results are up on the usacycling site.
ignoring the wheel size, i can’t believe he won on a trail bike.
**** hitting that rock garden flat out on a trail bike….

650b DH bike came third, 26 inch DH bike came second. The wheels had nothing to do with it….the weight and travel of the bike did.

As others have mentioned…. that course can barely be called a downhill track.

Hitting shortish rock gardens at speed on a trail bike is not the problem…this would cause little loss of time and little fatigue to someone on a trail bike….hitting rock gardens at speed for lengths of time is a problem. That’s when milliseconds start to add up and fatigue starts to set in. Trail bikes have won downhill events before,…. sea otter, Lopse at US nationals etc.

I’ll accept 29ers are better when we see results like this on multiple tracks and tracks where one would not expect them to win – eg Champery.

29ers are better when

somebody else is paying for your wheels

Nice thing about 26 all mountain bikes is that they can do everything quite literally…reasonably well…my brother was whipping out a nomad the other day on the biggest doubles at sherwood pines…i dont think he could have hit the rhythms perfectly on a 29er or got as much style off them.

Have you?

A few years ago but yep.

Anyway this is all good fun but I’ve gotta get on with building my new 29’er up.

The haters will work out they’re faster soon enough I’m sure.

I see no one has pointed out that Logan Binggeli came third on a 26er trail bike, which suggests it was a course for trail bikes, rather than DH bikes.

I’m curious as to why Ropelato decided to race DH with a large water bottle on his bike.

Edit: Looking at it, it may been a 650.

Still suggests it was a course for trail bikes even if third was a 650b trail bike. 29ers might be faster for that kind of track which is close to what most middle aged audi driving mtbers ride…the majority of mtbers….I doubt they will be for places like champery and they will never be better for youngsters that like air time.

Looking at videos of that track, short travel light bikes have a huge advantage even disregarding 29ers. In a way it shows how damn good gwin was to place that high on a demo 8.

Looking at the helmet cam footage it is easy to see a DH bike would have lost a lot of time over the last pedally section, especially compared to a more pedal-friendly trail bike. I’d be interested to see the split times on the way down.

was whipping out a nomad the other day on the biggest doubles at sherwood pines.

was watching a bloke pull some wicked whips, ultra flat tabletops and tyre grabs at some cheeky jump lines in the Forest of dean on cotic Solaris 29er

it’s all about the rider not the bike

Ive ridden a few 29ers….they are no where near as nice for jumping….not even close tazzy. They give up so much of the fun in return for stability.

Plus isnt the solaris a hardtail? Try adding 140mm of travel, sail like wheels and slower acceleration to jump handling….it really isnt as fun.

No wheel size is better they are just more suited for different preferences and uses.

looks like the champery podium is going to be filled with clown bikes from now on then 🙄

The haters will work out they’re faster soon enough I’m sure.

Faster at some things, slower at others.

But hey, enjoy your Kool-Aid.

B45er if your not being sarky there wont be imo….champery is to steep and techy in a way that increased roll over wont make up for…it requires a more chuckable bike…have you felt how little room there is for body language on a 29er

have you felt how little room there is for body language on a 29er

😆

Not for someone who is the proper size for one