Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 49 total)
  • 27.5 Plus first ride thoughts.
  • hughjayteens
    Free Member

    My Bronson was in at the LBS having a new spoke fitted, so they kindly lent me an Orbea Loki 27.5 Plus hardtail for the weekend, so I decided to head up to Swinley to see what all the fuss was about!

    I haven’t ridden a hardtail for years since selling my Whyte 19, and I have obviously gotten a bit soft and lazy in my old age as I had forgotten how much time you need spend out of the saddle to save your lower back from a battering, even with a 3″ rear tyre!

    Stating the obvious, there is masses of grip, and this really does become the dominating feel of the bike. It’s massively forgiving – get a line wrong into a fast berm and rather than crank it over, feel it slide and be grateful you made it out of the other side still upright, this just grips and grips and grips some more!

    There was far less drag then expected although you could feel the extra weight when accelerating (I have Enve rims on the Bronson which exaggerates the extra rotating weight of these) it rolled very well.

    Oddly enough it didn’t seem to want to leave the ground very easily – it was the top end Ltd model and seemed pretty light (didn’t check but I’d guess circa 28lbs ish) but on a couple of runs where I can get some decent air usually, it seemed like it was stuck to the ground somewhat and didn’t want to flick out much at all.

    In the name of science I had strava running and pushed fairly hard on a lap of the blue and red and the times on most segments where within a whisker of my PRs.

    The wife and kids met me afterwards and I fitted the LOCT child seat on the bike and went out again. My 3 year old confirmed that she much prefers full suspension too!

    I came away thinking that it’d make great beginners bikes due to the ease with which you can just plough into things and get lines wrong without incident, and I guess that the extra grip would just allow your speed and limits to be raised when flat out downhill (will be interesting to see if anyone starts racing DH or Enduro with them) but for me and for ‘normal’ riding, it seemed to take the fun out of it so for now, I’m oot!

    takisawa2
    Full Member

    Tyres look huge !!!
    Angle wise that things looks bloody ace. 🙂

    MadBillMcMad
    Full Member

    currently dreaming of the Cotic Solaris in 27.5+ mode.

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    I came away thinking that it’d make great beginners bikes due to the ease with which you can just plough into things and get lines wrong without incident

    Like full sussers? 😀

    hughjayteens
    Free Member

    nedrapier – Member

    Like full sussers?

    Touché!!

    thepodge
    Free Member

    Reading that I think I’m their target market, I just need to rob a bank to fund one

    nemesis
    Free Member

    I kind of get where you’re coming from – I’ve mostly ridden my 27+ fully rigid where the extra margin they give is still a lot less than riding hardtail or full sus and even if I run it with front suspension it’s still less capable than a decent full susser.

    I find it great fun though – TBH I was getting a bit bored with the frame it was on (no fault of the frame, just fancied a change) and for me, the new wheels mean I really enjoy riding it.

    I have to concur about the ‘beginners’ comment though – this is what people came up with for front suspension then full sus, then droppers, then wider range gears, etc – basically just a bit of a veiled insult as I’ve always seen it.

    hughjayteens
    Free Member

    nemesis – Member

    I have to concur about the ‘beginners’ comment though – this is what people came up with for front suspension then full sus, then droppers, then wider range gears, etc – basically just a bit of a veiled insult as I’ve always seen it.

    I don’t mean it in an insulating manner. The wife (who’s ridden off road a handful of times but is getting into it now) came and met me with the kids and we all went for a ride together around the blue. She was nervous on some of the looser sections when her bike was moving around a little, but if she’d had plus tyres on it would’ve been rock solid amd given her more confidence, hence my comment about them probably also being good for an enduro or DH racer as there is just more grip at any given speed, so they could just go faster to reach the grip limits of the plus tyres.

    It reminds me a little of the BMW v Audio quattro debate – a BMW arguably is more fun and involving at any given speed, whereas an Audi quattro is more reassuring and possibly safer in wet conditions. I’ve always had BMWs as prefer to ‘drive’ the car rather than it drive me.

    However, I’ve got a quattro on order – go figure!

    nemesis
    Free Member

    But isn’t that point equally true of any more capable bike – be that rigid to hardtail, hartail to FS or FS to more DH orientated FS?

    I don’t disagree that beginners could find them more confidence inspiring but isn’t that essentially true of anyone not riding a rigid mtb with 22″ bars and 1.5″ tyres pumped up to 60psi?

    The crux being that I reckon pretty much any rider be they beginner or expert could get something from the different wheels/tyres so long as the trails aren’t too tame (same argument for FSs again…)

    cokie
    Full Member

    hughjayteens- what shop did you demo this from?
    I’m looking to give one a go before committing and Swinley is local to me.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Like full sussers?

    And 29ers?

    nemesis
    Free Member

    Yep, good point – and 29ers or even standard 27″ (though IMO the intrinsic difference is so small as to be largely irrelevant for the majority of riders)

    hughjayteens
    Free Member

    nemesis – Member
    But isn’t that point equally true of any more capable bike – be that rigid to hardtail, hartail to FS or FS to more DH orientated FS?

    I don’t disagree that beginners could find them more confidence inspiring but isn’t that essentially true of anyone not riding a rigid mtb with 22″ bars and 1.5″ tyres pumped up to 60psi?

    The crux being that I reckon pretty much any rider be they beginner or expert could get something from the different wheels/tyres so long as the trails aren’t too tame (same argument for FSs again…)

    I guess so, but I personally am not just interested in going faster down any given trail, which is all I could see the extra grip doing for me, especially if it’s less fun at the same time. Each to their own though.

    cokie – Member
    hughjayteens- what shop did you demo this from?
    I’m looking to give one a go before committing and Swinley is local to me.

    It was from the Chiltern Bike Barn in Chalfont St Peter. Not that close to Swinley really and I believe that they only had it on loan from Orbea to see what they thought. I’d imagine any local Orbea dealer could get one in for you though.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    I agree with you actually – faster isn’t fundamentally more fun IMO – I got a bit bored of FS for local riding as they just tended to allow me to steamroller the trails I ride which made them less fun.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    faster isn’t fundamentally more fun IMO

    Couldn’t agree more. Taking my 160mm FS down a blue at BPW was really dull. I’d have enjoyed it more on the HT.

    roverpig
    Full Member

    Through a combination of good luck and bad planning I’ve currently got a new set of chubby wheels for my Solaris and a new full-suss 29er (which wasn’t supposed to be here until late November!).

    I’d tend to agree with the OP, if anything the plus size tyres are even more forgiving than the full suss; at least at low speed. Once the speed increases the more refined damping on the full suss lets you keep going when the plus sized tyres just get too bouncy. But up until that point the plus size gives more confidence.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    if anything the plus size tyres are even more forgiving than the full suss; at least at low speed

    Maybe at very low speed but I don’t agree with that in general or at the speeds we mostly ride

    roverpig
    Full Member

    Fair enough, we’re all different. I find the plus tyres make the hardtail feel very stable and like it can roll over anything, which gives me confidence to charge into things. It works really well until the hits get big enough that it starts to get a bit bouncy.

    The full-suss, on the other hand, doesn’t feel quite as smooth on the general trail chatter so takes a bit more nerve to get it up to speed, but once you do it works better.

    sq225917
    Free Member

    I’ve been playing with a carbon 27.5+ lately and it’s quite a fun thing, the grip levels are remarkable until speed gets so high that you’d want suspension anyway. Feels a whole load faster than a similar carbon framed fat bike. I could make do with one of these for a lot of fun riding.

    jamcorse
    Full Member

    I’ve just chubb’d my Solaris with LB rims, 30mm internal and WTB Trailblazers, 2.8.. I loved the project, wheel building etc but perhaps my expectations of the result were too high.. The tyres squirmed at soft pressures and it was still very ‘hard tail’ at non-squirming pressures. Sorry, I can’t tell you what they were because I don’t trust the gauge on my pump.

    I think that my SC Tallboy (carbon) is faster and more comfortable on almost all my rides and with 2.3/2.4 Ardents relatively soft, it corners better, that was a surprise but the trailblazer treads don’t look like they handle that much bike lean in order to fit into 29er frames/forks. I did get a kom on the steepest climb that I know so I agree with others that the grip is good. Also on descending it is more comfortable and less kidney-battering than the original Solaris.

    I’m still v happy to have gone Chubby on the Solaris and look forward to much more experimentation but perhaps I just expected too much.

    hughjayteens
    Free Member

    I’d like to try a full sus bike with plus tyres – if the new Tallboy LTC has Boost hubs it could be a great all rounder. 29″ wheelset for normal use and some 27.5+ for uplift days!

    Come on Fox – make a 150mm 36 with Boost spacing!

    noltae
    Free Member

    I’ve asked elsewhere – but I’m still none the wiser – in millimetres how wide is a ‘plus’ tyre ? I’m riding Racing Ralph’s 2.4 they’re around 63 mm .. So I’m not riding a ‘plus’ but tyres come up fairly wide . Is there an official width whereby suddenly your riding a ‘fatbike’ ?

    hughjayteens
    Free Member

    I didn’t measure them but I’d say closer to 80mm wide (they were Maxxis Chronicle 27.5 x 3). It’s not just the width but the greatly increased air volume that the 40mm wide rims bring. I ran them at about 17psi and didn’t bottom them out once.

    Unsure what the cutoff is though!

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    I came away thinking that it’d make great beginners bikes due to the ease with which you can just plough into things and get lines wrong without incident,

    Because that’s how you’d learn to ride well, on something that just covers over mistakes? Really? 😉

    thomasgeorge
    Free Member

    Noltae, l tried a trailblazer on my 30mm roval rim, as part of an experiment, and was a bit underwhelmed at its size of 62.2mm

    http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/paulwatterson/media/image_zpspvziiqac.jpeg.html%5D

    alexh
    Free Member

    I’d have to echo the lack of air. I hit my local pump track and I found it quite hard to get some good lift.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    Plus size widths here

    http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/650b-and-other-plus-sizes-if-you-like-rim-tyre-frame-fork-combinations

    But it’s not just about width, it’s the volume / depth that’s very different

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Wiedly I get the opposite on my Fatty, point it at a jump at about the right speed and it just sails over it, minimal user input required.

    As for grip, it feels like massive cornering speeds but im less and less sure its actually more grip. Arround Swinley I’ve found it quite easy to have it sideways on corners that wouldn’t trouble the XC bike. I think that may be due to line choice though, the bigger wheels favour a nice constant radius so hitting the apex on flat corners is the way forward, where the XC bike will take a more outside line round any berm even thoigh it’s squarer so at the fatty uses that extra grip to do the same speed.

    I wouldn’t put beginners on anything that niche though. There’s a reason everyone says get a 100-120mm hardtail, they’ve no handling quirks or potential for picking up hard to drop bad habits. And you dont want the least experienced/fit on the heaviest bikes.

    takisawa2
    Full Member

    2.8 Trailblazer vs 2.35 Ralph.

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/vWNDK5]IMAG0136[/url] by pten2106, on Flickr

    roverpig
    Full Member

    Or a Trailblazer vs a 2.35 Hans Dampf

    It is a bit taller

    But the difference between a 2.35 29er and a 2.8 27.5 is maybe not as big as you might think.

    hughjayteens
    Free Member

    I guess rim width plays a big role. The Loki had 50mm wide rims on it and the 3.0″ Maxxis Chronicles were MASSIVE – much bigger than my 2.5 dual ply minion DH tyres both in terms of width and overall balloon-ness.

    Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    But it’s not just about width, it’s the volume / depth that’s very different

    If the contact patch is not much bigger, (a lot of them aren’t) then why would you want to trade reduced damped travel for more tyre height? You can get low psi by going to wide rims and or ghetto/non-ghetto procore?

    Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. 650b+ just ends up feeling really squirmy.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    I’m not really sure I understand your point. Are you saying that so long as you run a 29er(?) tyre with procore and low pressure that it’ll be the same as a b+?

    Maybe? I’ve not run procore but IME b+ wheels’ extra tyre height means that they wrap around trail contours in a way very different to a softer, wide but not plus-sized tyre.

    firestarter
    Free Member

    Isn’t a 29er a taller wheel than a 27.5+ tho nemesis? I really like the look of the new marin pine mountain due out but it looks like a 29er with chunky tyres maybe a better option looking at the above pics

    nemesis
    Free Member

    Depends – on my fairly skinny 29er mud tyres, the b+ wheel is the same diameter.

    On more standard 29er tyres (say 2.1 – 2.2″) on my other bike, the 29er is around 7mm bigger radius so the difference is there but it’s not all that big.

    It’d be interesting to measure the tyre height (just the tyre height – ie not including the rest of the wheel) and width for some b+ setups and also 29er set ups with wider tyres such as those 2.35 ralphs that takisawa posted the pic of above.

    firestarter
    Free Member

    As the fatter tyres run at a lower pressure they will be smaller in use as more squashed down when sat on them so it makes the 29er bigger again in real terms. Possibly 🙂

    roverpig
    Full Member

    I did some quick and dirty measurements on the two wheels that I posted a picture of earlier (29er Hans Dampf 2.35 vs 27.5 Trailblazer 2.8). I made the overall diameter of the wheel about 2cm greater for the 29er i.e. about a 1cm larger radius. I guess that fits with the earlier estimate of 7mm difference in radius compared with a 2.2″ 29er.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    How tall are the rubber parts of the two wheels?

    alexh
    Free Member

    As other people have mentioned, its not just about width.

    I regularly used a 2.4 Goma on the rear of my 29″ (arch ex rim) and its nowhere near the cushioning effect of the 2.8 trailblazer (38mm deep rims), even though it was much wider.

    Mbnut
    Free Member

    I had my first ride out on my semi fat yesterday.

    Overall it is a good package for the riding I have locally… but… the Trailblazer 2.8 is impressively underwhelming.

    Size wise it isn’t that big for it’s claimed 2.8 size and the sidewalls are just too flimsy to run it at low pressure. It just squirms when pushed into and through corners if it is at a pressure that allows it to cushion and grip.

    I think the Trailblazers short comings were highlighted by the excellent Vee Tires Crown Gem 3.0 up front. It is large, voluminous and has excellent sidewall stiffness that stops it squirming yet still allows it to deform at the contact patch area… an excellent tyre.

    I am going to see if I can get one in the back, if not then Vee Tires do the Fatty and the Bulldozer in 2.8. Any feedback on either would be great.

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