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  • 2017/2018 cx racing thread
  • legend
    Free Member

    Irvine done – ooft! After the muddy but twisty more technical track last weekend, that was just pure power! Only place I really had much of an advantage was in the sand, but it wasn’t enough to really get involved. Another mid-pack finish (which I imagine will stay standard until the end of time) 44th out of 100 starters in Open Senior

    rollindoughnut
    Free Member

    First round of the National Trophy at Derby for me yesterday in the Vet40 class.
    Exciting racing and managed 21st which I was well chuffed with.
    Bit sad that there’s absolutely no mention of us oldies on the BC website. All the other cats got a write up or at least a mention, but nothing about the v40 and v50 which happened on the Saturday. 🙁

    Leigh2612
    Free Member

    Good work guys….48th at Basingstoke for me. I like cross, it doesn’t seem to like me!!

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    Really enjoyed Longridge – heavy, rainy conditions meant it was a constant battle to choose the best line so great racing from start to finish.

    The hairpin festival on the map didn’t materialise – first lap I was thinking wow, these corners really flow once you’re on it, you barely notice them. Slowly dawned on me that they’d had a rethink and laid the course out differently 🙂

    crashtestmonkey
    Free Member

    Congrats on the Nat Trophy placing.

    Central League was pan flat, fast and relentless at Leighton Buzzard, a real power circuit with lots of long straights which really isn’t my forte. As is the norm for this year the winner vanished like he was on a motorbike, I managed to get into the front ‘chasing’ group and had a race long battle with frequent position changes (Munqe Chick was so enthralled she sacked her warm-up and watched the whole race). After a brief and obviously futile and energy-burning stint in 2nd (done mainly for my ego 😉 ) , I bagged another (but still surprising) 4th in V40. I’ve no idea where this form came from and I just hope it sticks around 😆

    MC had a race-long 2-way fight with a younger roadie who successfully attacked her and held a gap on the last lap, so MC again took the second step of the podium.

    This Sunday is Hemel, hillier (usually my thing, but who knows) and the forecast is pretty much dry between now and then, and 17C on the day. Might get to dust off the file treads!

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    Rolling donut good result sadly this seems to be the BC norm and you’ve heard the nightmare the Vet women have had, there are some seriously disillusioned Vet women out there sadly as the BC dinosaurs continue to rule the roost in some ancient manner. Looked a fun course though.

    mick_r
    Full Member

    MC – what has been the problem for the vet women? Alison only does the CX National Champs (where they usually get their own race) so haven’t heard about what has been going on at the other National races. I know BC got a lot of hassle and had to backtrack when they weren’t going to recognise the V60 womens MTB cat.

    The Youth races also got ignored in the write-up, and they didn’t exactly shout about the mega achievement of Hattie (1st year Junior) getting 2nd overall. All results finally on BC (but not linked to the review).

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    Oh and don’t forget the Boxing Day Cross in Coventry which is just awesome! CYCLO-CROSS BIKES ONLY … only time in the year you can ride on Kenilworth Common and it’s like an MTB course.

    https://youtu.be/GBt0kUVMXmQ

    LS
    Free Member

    Rolling donut good result sadly this seems to be the BC norm and you’ve heard the nightmare the Vet women have had, there are some seriously disillusioned Vet women out there sadly as the BC dinosaurs continue to rule the roost in some ancient manner. Looked a fun course though.

    I’m as happy as anyone to give BC a kicking when they deserve it but the situation on Sunday was down to the chief comm on the day (Belgian UCI comm) implementing 80%, nothing to do with BC.
    I’m thoroughly sympathetic as my OH is in the VW race but it’s partly due to the new UCI rule saying that the UCI cats have to have their own separate races, at least when the junior men were in with the EW/VW it made 80%ing impossible. Bringing the rule in in July for immediate effect screws all the races that are already in the calendar as it’s not always possible to make changes and give everyone a completely separate race.
    Rds 4,5, and 6 will have a real dilemma on their hands.

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    Mick R, bear in mind I wasn’t there and I’m not a Vet women but I somehow got added to a very large FB messenger thread about change and the way forward within CX for women (of all categories).

    From what I can glean.. the Vet women started 2 minutes after the Elite/Junior/U23 women, then BC invoked the 80% rule and pretty much most of the Vet women got pulled some within 2 laps. When the width of the course, the regs (rule doesn’t have to be invoked I believe) and the numbers racing meant that they could have carried on the race. The Vet men didn’t have the 80% rule invoked so you had many Vet women coming back to racing, having travelled a long way to race for 2 laps.

    And the fact that the Junior or U23 don’t get a leaders jersey .. but that’s another ball game.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    I get the feeling misapplication of the 80% rule is becoming a real issue in the States (purely based on what i read on cxmagazine.com). It seems like it just needs better clarifiaction/guidance? Not a good way to start the national series. Did think the BC coverage was poor, always like to have a read and look at results of all cats to see how people are doing…. better than the mtb coverage though!!

    LS
    Free Member

    The rule itself is dead easy to follow but like you say it comes down to when and how well it’s applied. It’s not obligatory until you get to World Cup level and above so all comes down to the chief comm on the day.
    On Sunday it wasn’t communicated well and the vet women have a legitimate grievance about it being applied to them when the time is taken from the Elite leader.
    Rds 2 and 3 are having separate VW races so it won’t happen there but like I say it’s tricky for 4,5, and 6.

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    Last weekend was a UCI race which was why the Commissaire could call it and apply the 80% rule. I guess the issue is why wasn’t it invoked in the men’s race? Some simple maths (not by me so if wrong don’t shoot me) means any man after 42nd should have been pulled in the Vets race.

    4,5,6 struggling to have seperate race however 4 and 6 have indicated that they will run as last year which was WITHOUT 80% rule. This in itself makes it ridiculously complicated and doesn’t encourage women to race. Imagine you’d travelled all the way to Derby to be pulled after 2 laps due to some inequality rule? I wouldn’t bother going back, a very similar reason I won’t race the Welsh Champs again until I’m a Vet.

    Now we just need to get the lead female Junior a leaders jersey… as the boys already get. 🙄

    LS
    Free Member

    It was invoked in the men’s race, but only the UCI cat men’s races (so MJ and ME), not MV as they aren’t a UCI cat. That’s why it’s a legitimate grievance, as WV isn’t a UCI cat but is lumped in with WE.
    4+6 (prob 5 too) will put all the women back in with MJ which itself led to all the protests in the first place (and rightly) so it’s still a mess.
    The only way to solve it is for completely separate races for each separate category but that’s a huge undertaking logistics wise and can’t be done overnight. Based on numbers and development then you’d expect the Youth cats to be split completely first, esp. as youth boys has 130+ riders all on course at once.
    The other option is to pull the whole series from the UCI calendar but that spanners development potential for a lot of the younger riders, male and female.

    Agree 100% on the jerseys!

    mick_r
    Full Member

    OK thanks for the explanation – I’ll report back to the Mrs as we weren’t aware what happened (think would have been OK time wise looking at the people she normally races with). Undecided if we’ll bother with any Nationals this year – I hate the whole jetwash arms race they seem to have become.

    Looks like a fair chunk of Juniors & Seniors also got pulled – with a total of 63 riders on the course it really wouldn’t have been an issue to let everyone stay on. I wondered why so many finish times were missing, and as they don’t show laps completed it is impossible to work out who got pulled when. Also unclear if the times for the vet women are taken from when they started or when the first wave set off.

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    Discussing the 80% rule on the Crosscast podcast!

    SO who is racing where this weekend? We have Hemel… but this isn’t cross it’ll be a grass crit again with the weather forecast sun and 20 degrees I mean WTF!? With the leagues finishing before Christmas at this rate we won’t have any mud.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    Plenty of mud in Wales! Spent yesterday eve finalising/fine-tuning the Singleton course for the 5th November; subject to approval/risk assesment. Its going to be a cracker if I say so myself, less long climbs and more twisty bits than the champs.

    No racing for me this w/e. Have a good one all who are. Looks like very small pre-entry for the Welsh league round so part of me thinks I’m missing out on a potential good placing, but then again never feels satisfying when you get a good position in a diminished field

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    Ferrals it seems EVERY Welsh League race so far has been muddy jealous! I raced Llanishen which was awesome then back to Central where it’s bone dry and like summer. Any news on where the Welsh Champs are being held this year? Seems every other regional race is up except Welsh champs?

    mick_r
    Full Member

    All racing Manchester. Every NW race has been muddy and don’t expect this to be any different…..

    Myself and youngest have been off bikes for 3 weeks with colds, so both expecting to get a battering.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    Ferrals it seems EVERY Welsh League race so far has been muddy jealous!

    Not really, Builth was bone dry despite there having been plenty of rain, Foxley was like a desert with no water in the stream crossings, Pembrey was Pembrey. Its only Llanishen and Carmarthen where theres been mud so far… I’m sure we’ve plenty more coming though 😀

    On the FB page they said welsh champs venue should be announced by end of month.

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    Oh wow all the pics I had seen was off muddy welsh buddy CX bikes! Clearly they found all the puddles which you avoided 😉

    wavy27
    Full Member

    Yorkshire Series at Huddersfield on Sunday. I expect last weeks 7th in V50 to be in jeopardy as the fieled will be back up to full strength after National Trophy absentees from Holmfirth last weekend. Things are definitely getting slipperier!

    wavy27
    Full Member

    I was wrong – hardly any mud at Huddersfield! Just a bit greasy on the grass. It can’t last – mud tyres arriving this week.
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/YrYLwt]Untitled[/url] by David Collins, on Flickr

    legend
    Free Member

    Anyone got any thoughts on WTB Cross Bosses? Looking ropey for mud (especially for traction) but hoping for good news!

    mick_r
    Full Member

    Manchester was also amazingly dry and mild. So much grip that Alison peeled a tub on the off-camber grass. It was always a gamble with tape, so time to start the gluing ritual tonight to be ready in time for next weekend.

    V40-49 was 122 starters, so rather crowded again but always someone to race for us mortals back in mid-field.

    Boys both happy with their races.

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    mick_r – Member

    Manchester was also amazingly dry and mild. So much grip that Alison peeled a tub on the off-camber grass. It was always a gamble with tape, so time to start the gluing ritual tonight to be ready in time for next weekend.Enjoyed Heaton park, although did the senior race and was just trundling around on my own for most of it. Leaders were extremely rapid.

    I was glueing up last night and used some tufo 25mm tape for the first time – really nice and wide, be too wide for a lot of rims, but on a planet X 38 it’s a perfect fit.

    mick_r
    Full Member

    I’d better not mention it was Tufo (22mm) she rolled…. Freshly and very carefully applied 3 weeks ago. It is multi thickness and I think the thinner edges allow it to start peeling and then roll (never had an issue with the effetto tape).

    In fairness she was running soft Limus tyres which probably generated an awful lot of grip on the steep camber.

    I’m now 1 day into the hateful pot of glue ritual….

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    OOO Crashtestmonkey has disappeared from the thread probably as he is maybe on day 3 of gluing his tub.. and it’s his first time.. I daren’t ask!

    mick_r
    Full Member

    Tonight is the point of no return – final coat of tacky glue and tyre meets rim……

    In hindsight, eldest son’s tubeless Schwalbe bites seem like a better solution.

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    I just glue (and tape) in one hit now – according to this guy:

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okqs-3HgU4U[/video]

    Takes about an hour all in. I realise not letting the glue cure is unorthodox, but I did this last season and the tyres were fine, so I’m sticking with the method for now.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    In hindsight, eldest son’s tubeless Schwalbe bites seem like a better solution

    At the start of this season I was lusting over tubular wheels given the general consensus that they are grippier, better rolling, lighter and more reliable than tubeless. However I’ve seen so many rolled or punctured tubs so far this season I’m beginning to think the advantages might be overplayed! At least if I keep believing that it will save me £500 next year! I do tend to wince every time I hear/feel a rim clatter on root or rock but I guess tats the same whatever ou’re riding

    steve_b77
    Free Member

    I had a pair of Challenge Limus tubs that I won in a raffle, contemplated building a set of wheels to suit, the thought about repairing them and promptly sold them on here.

    I’m not good enough to warrant tubs anyway, although I do like how they look 8) especially on 38/50mm carbon rims.

    Been running tubeless for 3 seasons now (although yet to race this year due to injury, but I will be this weekend) and only burped a tyre once.

    crashtestmonkey
    Free Member

    Interesting to read people just taping tyres, I’m new to tubs (as MC suggests I’ve just spent this week gluing my first) but I spent all last week reading up on it and the consensus seemed to be tape-alone can’t deal with the shear forces that CX tyres create (off cambers etc) compared to road? Heard of the ‘Belgian’ method (tape+glue) but can’t figure out what the tape is bringing to the party, as you’re just introducing something that stops the glue bonding the tyre direct to the rim? Also read of a few tape failures with Tufo, ascribed to it being made of multiple layers, and it basically delaminates?

    I picked up a used but spanking pair of LB deep carbon rims on Hope hubs fitted with FMB Supermuds for £250 last year so not a huge outlay for Velcro-like grip. If my re-gluing fails and I DNF with a rolled tub I’m sure MC will post it on here….

    I don’t see the benefits of tubs in hard/dry conditions where you’re running higher pressures to avoid sidewall collapse and pinchflats, seems like you’re increasing the risk of rolling it off (higher cornering speeds = more shear forces) without the grip benefits that low pressures provide. MC has got interested enough in the geek element that she’s just bulk bought some Challenge latex tubes her clinchers 😉

    LS
    Free Member

    As far as I understand it, glue and tape originated back when we were using 26-28mm tubs on 18mm wide rims with a very deep U-section to them. That resulted in only the very edge of the base tape actually contacting the rim, so strips of tape were glued in to fill the ‘U’. I only ever use glue, personally
    I’ve always thought the same as you, it’s just another matrix to fail, particularly if the two glues are incompatible. With the more modern, flatter rims it’s a non-issue. Even Reflexes are pretty flat if you compare to something like an old Mach 2.

    Tubs are just as much use on hard and dry conditions as that’s the point, you don’t use high pressures but still run them fairly low in order to absorb the bumps.

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    Ferrals I spoke to Cyclopaedia in Cardiff (presuming you know them from Welsh league) and they seemed to think that if you aren’t a heavy person or a heavy rider (i.e. who crashes into things) then the best investment is latex tubes instead and you only lose something like 2watts from not running tubs. Im like you keep thinking about it but I’m earning less now. I weight maybe 59kg but am a light rider and so far touch wood in 3 seasons of coming back to CX never had a puncture. So that’s what I’m going to try.. I’m sure crashtestmonkey will post on here if it all goes wrong tomorrow 😉

    steve_b77
    Free Member

    Well I went and entered my first race of the season, first time I’ve ridden at any kind of effort level since the 3 Peaks & the crash where I had a grade 2 ACJ separation, got the wife to strap my shoulder up just in case and proceeded to bimble round the NWCCA course at Bebbington Oval in V40.

    It was rather muddy to say the least, I was rather cuffed that I managed to stay up right and only get lapped by the top 6 riders to come home 67th out of 94 starters. I guess it’s only on wards and upwards as I use the CX racing to regain fitness.

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/CARCVm]FB_IMG_1508688212912[1][/url] by Steve Bowman, on Flickr

    Mini-me No.1 continued showing me up by racing his way to 11th in the U8’s from 30 odd starters and looking more like breaking into the top 10 every week. This was his 3rd 11th place finish out of 4 races, bloody brilliant in my book considering he was only 5 in April and is in year 1 at school, so he’s racing all the boys & girls in years 2, 3 & 4.

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/ZjfxAy]20171022_114129[1][/url] by Steve Bowman, on Flickr

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Phew, great race at SCX Round 3 at Fife College in Dunfermline on Sunday.

    I went in just looking to improve slightly on my (disappointing) placing in Round 1, and also to try and sneakily target Legend if he was racing! 😉

    Course seemed a little flatter than Round 1, but some really tricky muddy sections, one particularly long, flat and deep muddy bit which basically had to be ran, cue what felt like a mini asthma attack on the third lap!

    Felt like I was riding much better this time, and was actually able to race, spent lots of time taking inside lines and using the one hurdle of the race as a sneaky overtaking opportunity, turned out it was quicker to keep running after the hurdle until the next corner, then remounting. Took a couple of places that way 😀

    Seems there’s a big psychological element with the overtakes, I know in the first round I wouldn’t bother chasing someone who had passed me, assuming they were just fitter/faster and it wouldn’t be worth the effort. Yesterday’s race saw me struggle to pass a few guys who then just didn’t seem to bother chasing when they could probably have easily re-passed, suited me fine!

    So, from 61st in round 1 to 39th in round 3, unfortunately I think the biggest room for improvement is my running, not sure I’m committed enough to work on that, might just continue with 4 minute on and off intervals on the commute.

    RoterStern
    Free Member

    My first cross race of the season ended in disaster…in fact it didn’t even start! I couldn’t race the first race last weekend of the series because of family commitments so I was pretty motivated to start the second race which is a local race and a proper hard course (plus I finished third last year at its inaugural event). It’s a night race under floodlight and there was a practice session on Friday evening so I went over to try out my new wheel set. Enve tub rims with DT Swiss hubs. Went for a quick bimble around the lap to get an idea and the rear tyre rolled off the rim! Crap! Took the wheel into the LBS on Saturday morining and they decided to glue it( was taped before). They reckoned it would be fine for the eve race. Anyway we were allowed 10 min before the start to ride the course and guess what the tyre came off again. As I had ridden there from home I didn’t have a spare wheel with me so that was that!! 🙁

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    steve_b77 – Member

    Well I went and entered my first race of the season, first time I’ve ridden at any kind of effort level since the 3 Peaks & the crash where I had a grade 2 ACJ separation, got the wife to strap my shoulder up just in case and proceeded to bimble round the NWCCA course at Bebbington Oval in V40.

    It was rather muddy to say the least, I was rather cuffed that I managed to stay up right and only get lapped by the top 6 riders to come home 67th out of 94 starters. I guess it’s only on wards and upwards as I use the CX racing to regain fitness.Nice one Steve – I raced Bebington too. Quite a hard course, my bike usually wears the mud pretty well but got overwhelmed there. Ground to a halt on the 3rd lap and had to scoop mud off the drivetrain. Seeing other people around me change bikes then leave me for dead, again, think I’ll be getting a second one.

    Bad luck with the wheel rotor stern. When was your race? Usually hear 48 hr as optimum time to wait after glueing, 24 hr at the mimimum [unlike a lot of hearsay around tub glueing, it’s a fact that the final bond takes time to strengthen]. So if it was Sat evening the shop is not being serious with you. Sun evening you’d have expected it to be OK, maybe if the tape didn’t come off clean it can cause issues with the rim /tyre for a re-glue.

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    It’s interesting seeing a lot of the issues people on CX bikes are having that I’ve dodged so far on my adapted MTB

    Mud and clogging: what is it that actually clogs? Is this restricted to 2x set ups or do people running 1x get it too? I’m on 1×11 on the MTB, the chainset was caked and had a conical ‘dish’ of mud on the inside where it had been scraped off against the chainstay, but everything was still turning

    Derailleurs: Lots of these getting ripped off by mud. Mine is an SRAM GX, it was full of twigs, mud and leaves but was still turning (and usually I’m the first to slate SRAM stuff). All I’ve done is replace the jockey wheel bearings with new, better sealed units. Are the people ripping off mechs just more powerful than me? (I’m sitting and spinning 90% of the time)

    Tyres: Even guys (like me) with tubes were apparently running pressures like 25psi. I didn’t have the nerve to go below 40psi, and even then I bottomed out both rims when I attempted an on-the-move mud shedding bunny hop. Are the guys running crazy low pressures just a lot lighter than me (84kg) and do they ever lean over on corners? 😕 Still wondering what the low pressures are actually for, grip on loose surfaces doesn’t seem relevant to Scottish CX races, but somebody said it allows the tyre to flatten out more and sink into the mud less?

    Anyway, hope I haven’t jinxed myself with mechanicals for the next race…

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