• This topic has 503 replies, 39 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by matts.
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  • 2017 TT'ing thread
  • matts
    Free Member

    6/80 in the 50-55 age group at the Tour of Cambridgeshire yesterday. New position is faster. Disc wheel not required, and it comes tomorrow..

    Saw that on Strava. Great result.

    340 powerpod average watts.

    That seems like a big jump from previous races.

    matts
    Free Member

    Not sure but I seem to be able to put out more power in the tt position than in normal road position. From what I’ve read this isn’t normally the case?

    That is unusual. Can you replicate that out on the road in the different positions?

    TiRed
    Full Member

    That seems like a big jump from previous races.

    It was the caffeine gels 😉

    I didn’t change any part of the setup from the Wednesday Hillingdon TT (except a nicer saddle), and also rode a calibration for tilt on the Friday evening in case I had knocked it. It’s possible that the initial readings may have been a little off, but I was careful.

    The big difference was my average HR was about 3 bpm higher than past efforts. I did try and target splits of 290/300/310/320/330W, but to be honest, starting into a strong headwind took my HR right up, so I thought Id just gun it and hope that the tailwind home would see me through. And it did.

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    umop3pisdn
    Free Member

    I did try and target splits of 290/300/310/320/330W

    Why such huge variation?

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Well it was just a target to try and go harder and harder really. In fact it didn’t really go like that at all: 359/319/328/358/334. Heart rate did climb steadily though except 4th segment which has a hill to descend: 167/173/175/171/174. I’ve only ridden about club 15 races in the past three years, and no open events yet. So just learning what I can do still.

    umop3pisdn
    Free Member

    If you’ve got power I’d avoid looking at HR too much – far too many variables (fatigue, caffeine etc). Depends on the course, but you’d want a more level pacing strategy.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Well it is “power” of sorts, but takes an assumption about CdA, and I am happy to pace by it – normally to tell me to go harder as I tend to lose focus easily! It was very windy and a lumpy course, to which I am better suited.

    I plan on a Vector for my vintage Dura Ace cranks (can’t use my Stages), and then use the pod for CdA measurement. I also have two position changes, a Hed Jet Plus disc wheel and some aero socks to come. I’d like to try a javelin helmet too. Although I can hold the tail of the Advantage on my back fine, I need some optical correction under the improvised visor and can’t race with my glasses!

    TiRed
    Full Member

    A little vanity, but obligatory TOC Chrono shot

    For an exercise in selling you photos, it is surprising that there is not a single side on picture for the keen tester. This was the best of the bike and it’s on the small ring because I’m at the top of the climb.

    hjghg5
    Free Member

    No racing for me this week but we’re off to watch the dauphiné TT later 🙂

    bjj.andy.w
    Free Member

    Haven’t posted on the thread for a while but I’m still testing 😀 Been doing ok, finishing in the top 10 overall and top 3 in v40 in the open events I’ve been entering. Still not entirely happy though, can’t seem to be able to get the same power out as I could from last season on my road bike with clip ons. I’m 15-20w down even though all my training has been on the TT bike to get used to the position. (Although that maybe because I’m not as fit as last year, yet 😉 )
    I’m going to throw my hat into the long distance TT’s later on this summer so for the last three Sundays I’ve been doing long rides (100,100 then a 150 last Sunday) on the TT bike to get used to the position. Surprisingly it’s not been that bad (apart from the saddle sores 😳 I’ve been offered a adimo to try out that might alleviate the problem hopefully)

    umop3pisdn
    Free Member

    So, tips for a 12hr TT?

    Jamz
    Free Member

    So, tips for a 12hr TT?

    Which one have you entered? I have never done one before but D12/1 in August hangs in the back of my mind, just cos it would be cool to get a BBAR certificate?.

    umop3pisdn
    Free Member

    The Newbury, tomorrow.

    crashtestmonkey
    Free Member

    Silverstone 9-up TTT was a riot. Amazing how tight some of the corners feel when I’ve also done them on a 150hp motor bike. Finished as one of our 5 remaining riders (times taken on 5th rider) to get 3rd in Vets.

    Munqe Chick in a mixed team managed to catch the rear QR of the rider in front with her front wheel, slicing 3 spokes in half (in a 20 spoke wheel) 😯 Luckily the wheel didn’t collapse and she didn’t come off, she ran into pit lane and a dropped rider from another team loaned her a bike to finish on as the team’s 5th and last remaining rider 8) and checking the times it only cost her about 40 seconds. You can take the girl out of CX, but you can’t take CX out of the girl 😀

    TiRed
    Full Member

    What wheel? I’m impressed she could ride it at all! Cracking event isn’t it. Did it two years ago and loved it.

    Rode the HDW club 10 on Thursday. Well off my normal pace and couldn’t get the HR up. Probably due to the vets race the day before. Still some tweaks to come.

    crashtestmonkey
    Free Member

    TiRed Fulcrum Racing Quattro. I think she came to a dead stop as it locked up against the brakes and luckily it was just before exit to pit and next to a dropped rider who was stopping.

    crosshair
    Free Member

    Good luck Umop! And to MrBlobby and all the other NRC volunteers.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Tested lower and narrower position. No 12hr race, just 33 laps of Hillingdon at tempo. Well having a separated shoulder may have some aero benefits and I can still put the power down.

    The stem set up would probably have some of you expecting my imminent demise. Headset and steerer are threaded and I removed the spacers and locknut. A 1 1/8 threadless stem, with shim to 1″ is clamped directly to the exposed threaded steerer tube, but the steerer is a bit too short. So I have a single bolt 3T stem that needed an extra coke can shim to really nip up tight. Feels nice and tight, and at least the stem doesn’t hold the forks on! Looking for a UCI compliant 1″ stem for Albi, probably threadless.

    umop3pisdn
    Free Member

    271 miles – that was a bit tough

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Was helping out at the 12 hour and gave you a few cheers as you sped past. Up and down that road for 12 hours with that headwind, mentally really tough.

    DT78
    Free Member

    That’s impressive! Not sure I could ever bring myself to do a 12hr tt!

    Spent a bit more time trying to work out my positioning and why things are different between tt and road. Seems on the tt bike I’m pushing my tail bone out and dropping my chest to get into an aero position, on the road bike I have my tail bone tucked under more and more curve on the spine as I lean forward. Is this normal or is my tt position incorrect?

    jb89
    Free Member

    The usefulness of a power meter!

    Raced H25/17 Saturday, first time with the PM on the TT bike, and averaged a measly 260w, compared to 310+ on road bike, and 300 on clip ons.

    However, looking at comparisons of the H10/17r segments (‘out’ and ‘back’), I was quicker by around 15s overall despite 60w less on clip ons! (258 vs 318w).

    If this means my TT position is c. 60w quicker, then I’m pretty pleased! Only the second time I’ve ridden it this year so I’m sure I can find a fair bit of that power as I start to get used to it! Just need something other than 30mm wheels and could be getting somewhere!

    (I know it’s not a fully accurate aero test…but this isn’t the TTF 😉 )

    TiRed
    Full Member

    271 miles – that was a bit tough

    Well done. That’s a fine effort.

    As for effects of aero, here are some numbers. I rode my road (not race) bike on the Westerley Wednesday segment (11 Hillingdon laps) after a race on Wednesday; Rode the TT bike in new position with all the trimmings and toys last night. Both at tempo or below:

    Road: HR 149 bpm, speed 35.3 km/h.
    TT: HR 140 bpm, speed 39.0 km/h.

    Both rides are about 200-220 Watts on default bikecalculator. So less effort (HR) for 10% more speed on the TT bike (RPE was lower too). For the same speed on my road bike, I would need (39.0/35.3)^3 = 1.35 x more power or about 283 Watts. So the position, skinsuit, disc wheel and pointy helmet is saving at least 60 Watts compared to the road skinsuit, 60 mm deep sections and aero road helmet. My race HR is 170-173 bpm, so some headroom to go.

    The question for TT riding is whether you can still put out the power in such a position as the hip angle closes. Tested this too on some hard straight sections into the headwind (always windy at Hillingdon). We’ll see on Wednesday how much difference the lower position makes.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    271 miles – that was a bit tough

    Just to give umop3pisdn his dues, he rode 12hrs on a fixed gear on a lumpy out and back course with a strong gusting head/tail wind. It was pretty unpleasant just stood by the side of the road! A very impressive effort.

    The whole thing looked pretty hideous TBH. The dull featureless course, the traffic, the wind, the monotonous hours of riding. The anguish on the faces of some of the riders stopping, really wanting to pack it in, but wanting to finish, looking utterly spent. Maybe one for next year 😉

    bjj.andy.w
    Free Member

    The whole thing looked pretty hideous TBH. The dull featureless course, the traffic, the wind, the monotonous hours of riding. The anguish on the faces of some of the riders stopping, really wanting to pack it in, but wanting to finish, looking utterly spent.

    Your really not selling this 12hr malarkey to me are you 😕 :mrgreen:

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    I’d not normally celebrate midweek club races… but after crappy couple of months off with injury then a long list of cancelled races, DNS and DNF I finally finished a race 😀 Only second time I’ve done that this year with the last one being back in early March. And none too shabby a performance, rode it quite conservatively, few seconds off my course PB, and power was ok for what might as well be first race of the year. Happy enough with that.

    Bike held together too. Few mods for this year, going 1×11 with a new aerocoach carbon ring. Had a bit of a concern about a 58t but was fine for a fairly flat course (only problem is that the gearing is a bit big for the turbo warm up!)

    umop3pisdn
    Free Member

    I’ve endulged myself witha bit of a writeup for the 12, apologies but it’s a bit long:

    Riding a debut 12hr TT

    2015 was my first real season of long distance time trialling, riding 3 100 milers with reasonable success – which made me seriously consider the 12 hour. The plan was to give the Newbury 12 a go in 2016 – this didn’t happen as likely supporters were unavailable. I considered riding the KCA 12 without much enthusiasm but this event ended up cancelled – so I finished 2016 with just the single 100 after the BDCA 100 was also cancelled.

    Going into 2017 I knew that I needed to do a 12 and that the Newbury 12 was the only one that made sense. I live a mile from the course, parents aren’t too far away for support and I know (and love?) the course well. It’s also perfect for a debut 12 from a support perspective with laps no longer than 20 miles meaning there were plenty of opportunities for water/food handups – so an entry was submitted. I’d marshalled for the previous two years so I was looking forward to experiencing the event from the road.

    Training wise, things could have been better. I’ve long since given up turbo trainer sessions or even anything that could be considered an interval outside of the hillclimb season, preferring the oldschool approach of ‘just riding your bike’ (though with far less volume than would be ideal). The postponement of the Hounslow 100 because of the National Champs meant that there was no opportunity for a long time trial before the 12, so as it ended up I went into it with just two 10s, a 15 and a 50 mile TT in my legs. The planned 6 hour test ride on the TT bike never happened and I managed perhaps around 100 miles on the TT bike outside of racing – all not really advisable! A couple of 200km rides on my road bike were the sum total of my distance prep. Nutrition was a similar situation; I knew what worked up to 100 miles in racing but beyond that was an unknown.

    The week and day before the race was spent faffing around with setup choices like bottles (I ended up losing no bottles from the saddle carrier which is the one that concerned me, and four from my BTA mount), trying to work out what combination of gels and food would give me the suggested 60-70g of carbs per hour, and duct taping things like lights (forgot to turn on the rear) and Pitstop (no punctures) onto the bike. Gear choice was another issue of consideration, I’ve found 100” to be pretty perfect for 100s but didn’t really know what I’d be able to keep turning for 12 hours – I narrowed the choice down to 87”, 90” and 93”. I ended up with the latter (53/15) knowing that I could switch to a 16t if things got tough. I also debated skinsuit choice, whether to use tripsocks/overshoes and just about every other element of bike setup was considered. I didn’t really change my position much at all, I’d raised my bars 5mm a couple of races into the season and was running my saddle further back than last year. With the nullification of the 3cm rule I also pushed my extensions out by 5mm, as far as they would go as I’ve always felt more comfy stretched out.

    Day of the race I was up at 5 for the drive over to HQ, ready for a start time of 7:46. After the usual HQ chitchat I got suited and booted, stuck gels up my skinsuit legs and headed down to the start – far too early as I ended up milling around by Chawton roundabout for 25 minutes or so. One of the Artic Tacx RT crew, supporting their three riders in (successful) pursuit of competition record remarked to one of their riders before he started that he found the 6-7 hour point the hardest – not what you need to hear on the start line! I rolled off and got started on the faster eastward leg towards Farnham, being surprised to be overtaken by my minute man just 3 miles in. Still, it’s a long race so I resisted any urge to pick up the pace and let him go. More expected was the scratch man, Pete Harrison thundering past me just after The Bull pub 9 miles in – my money was on him for the win, CR and competition record but he ended up bailing around 4 hours in his early 325 mile pace (!) proved too much.

    Turning into the wind on the return leg from Farnham made it clear that this was going to be a tough day – the westbound leg has a net elevation gain, some terrible sections of road surface and also a reasonably significant headwind. There wasn’t much to do but just grind along, trying not to burn too many matches and settle in to something of a rhythm. I actually ended catching number 47, the person who had overtaken me from the start, just after the Holybourne roundabout which suggested that I was pushing harder into the wind and then struggling to get equivalent power out on the faster eastbound leg – he ended up catching me again here, I then overtook him a final time on the same stretch and then that was that for the race. I’ve always found it hard to get comfy on the bike in the first 45 minutes or so of a long TT, I think it’s a case of squeezing the blood out of the relevant places, and once I was over that I got into a relatively nice rhythm. I needed a pee from about an hour in but ignored it, targeting at least 4 hours before my first stop. After a first fumbled bottle handup 25 miles in things started going pretty smoothly with occasional catches/overtakes.

    100 miles ticked over in 4:19, with my first stop shortly after for a pee behind a bus shelter and ditching gel wrappers in the bin before carrying on the Hen and Chicken to pick up more food. Up until then I’d been fine on a gel every half hour or so but I was getting pretty fed up of them so stuffed a sausage roll down my neck and grabbed a few gels, some Skratch fruit chews and a pack of Clif Shot Bloks. Getting a third of the way through without any issues felt good, but from about 5 hours I went through a bit of a rough patch. The wind had picked up and I didn’t feel too strong, and was worried that I’d overcooked things. Got through it and getting to 6 hours felt good. Breaking the halfway point is always a motivator for me on a long ride and knowing I was getting closer to the end carried me through for another few hours.

    Anyone that’s ridden a long TT on the A31 will know how terrible the Chawton stretch is – it’s a little rolling and has huge cracks in the road that there is no smooth path through. It’s just ker-dunk, ker-dunk, repeated for 6 miles. The incentive in the Newbury 12 is the knowledge that once the leading riders get to 200 miles we’d be moved onto the finishing circuit of around 14 miles which misses out this section. This was predicted to be around 16:00, although I convinced myself that both Pete Harrison and Richard Bideau would be faster than that so we could move onto the smoother roads earlier – wrong, they’d both scratched! On my 9th approach to the circuit I was hoping to be turned onto the finishing circuit but wasn’t too surprised to be told to carry straight on. No problem – this was my last time. Wrong again, at 5 to 4 I was once again directed onto the Chawton stretch, this time for the final time. This caused another low period, especially knowing that I still had almost 4 hours left to ride.

    Still, I eventually got onto the finishing circuit and started trying to work out what kind of end result was achievable. I wanted 270 miles but by this point that was looking like a big ask, as I was increasingly finding myself sitting up on the fast leg for comfort and still grinding into the wind on the way back. I set a schedule of 2 shot bloks ever twenty minutes and just tried to focus on tapping out the pace as consistently as possible. At one point I overtook Rob Bullyment, the other rider on fixed on the downward leg after a concerted effort. He returned the favour by catching my again a few miles later, I then passed him on the uphill stretch (notice a theme) – although he did end up beating me by 3 miles or so (on a smaller gear). As I got closer to the finish I knew that 270 was on, and it was amazing to tick over that at around 11:58. As my Garmin got to 12:00, I had 271.3 on my display. Similar to an hour record, you have to carry on past 12 hours until you reach the next timekeeper. Unfortunately I went past my penultimate one at what must have been 11:59:45, so I ended up riding on for another mile up the road into the headwind before finishing.

    Got a lift back to HQ where I made slightly delirious conversation whilst inhaling samosas and Rachael Elliot’s homemade flapjack, then dropped all the kit back at home, showered and pretty much collapsed into bed. My feet probably felt the worst the next day, I couldn’t really feel my outer three toes on each side. Knees ached and my shoulders are still pretty grim, but legs have recovered surprisingly well.

    Looking like 271.33 official distance, pressure is on for a 25mph BAR now!

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Great write up there. Just how rough was that 5hr rough patch?

    matts
    Free Member

    Congratulations Andy. Fantastic achievement.

    umop3pisdn
    Free Member

    Just how rough was that 5hr rough patch?

    Pretty rough. Hard to remember now but whilst I didn’t feel that close to quitting it wac certainly tough to push on knowing just how much longer it was going to last.

    Cheers both.

    bjj.andy.w
    Free Member

    Great wright up and fantastic achievement!

    gray
    Full Member

    Yes, thanks for writing all that, and very well done!

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Thats pretty awesome stuff ^^

    Advice please, what approach should I be doing each day the week before a 25m, assuming thats at 2pm on a Saturday? Thanks

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    I reckon what works well is probably down to the individual. If it’s an important race I’d have probably put in two big volume weeks then have this week as lower volume, probably something like…

    Monday – rest
    Tuesday – 2hr z2/z3
    Wednesday – 2hr z2/z3 with maybe a 20 min threshold effort or 2×8 at 105%
    Thursday – 1hr z1
    Friday (morning) – 90 mins z2 with 1×8 min threshold and 3 short sprints
    Saturday – race

    Really is trial and error though in finding a routine that gives you decent legs on the day.

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    That’s a great write-up (and effort) on the 12hr !

    I’ve just averaged a shade over your pace 8) … for a TEN 😳

    still, minute and a half off my 1st ever TT time a fortnight ago; if I keep this up I’ll be a contender by the time I’m 60

    hjghg5
    Free Member

    Hello! I’m back from holiday and back racing 🙂

    We got back on Wednesday and straight back into things on Thursday with the club 25 mile championships. I won the women’s title 🙂 we also had a rather special guest rider who broke the two lap record and equalled the one lap record on his second lap – Alistair brownlee 🙂

    Nasty evening in other respects though – nasty wind and rain, and one of the juniors was hit by a car at about 20 miles. Thankfully no bones broken but he needs a new bike.

    Then the national TTT yesterday – completely different weather! An 11.10 start time had us out there in 30 degree heat. Our expectation was that we’d finish last but we didn’t! Possibly the only time I’ll ever finish 7th in a national championship! We rode together so much better than in our practice sessions and kept safe too – I was surprised how many teams crashed!

    Back to the same course for a 15 tomorrow if my legs recover in time.

    jb89
    Free Member

    20:36 on the f11/10 on Saturday. A 4s PB but a bit of a crap ride, not really making the most of a good day! I think I was a bit tired from a week of TT bike acclimatisation (different muscles) and the heat made it difficult!

    Still 40w down on power (288 on Saturday, despite raising the front slightly. Going for a radical change with tilted arms this week to try and get more power out without (hopefully!) comprising aero.

    F11/10 next Saturday too, so another chance!

    jb89
    Free Member

    I’ve also decided to but some speed and get some wheels that are deeper than 30mm and aero as a fridge! Shopping to be done this week! 😀

    Jamz
    Free Member

    20:36 on the f11/10 on Saturday. A 4s PB but a bit of a crap ride, not really making the most of a good day! I think I was a bit tired from a week of TT bike acclimatisation (different muscles) and the heat made it difficult!

    It seemed like pretty damn quick day! I couldn’t handle the heat tho….buying a white helmet ASAP.

    hjghg5
    Free Member

    In a postscript to the above we’ve just realised that we beat last year’s bronze medallists. Maybe we’re not as crap as we thought!

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