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  • 2016 TT'ing thread
  • matts
    Free Member

    Love it. Must enter Catford soon. Sent off my entry too late a few years back and it got stuck in a postal strike.

    Think I might have another pop at the ECCA this year. Came second by 0.5 seconds over the 2 runs a few years back. Not that it’s grated on me ever since or anything. 👿 👿 👿

    matts
    Free Member

    Got some new wheels – 1052g!

    My bloody rear wheel weighs that!

    umop3pisdn
    Free Member

    CBA with all the weight weenieing though.

    My bike’s gonna be <4.5kg – should probably lose some weight myself now!

    matts
    Free Member

    Much more serious about it than me. When I got second in the ECCA my bike had 2 power meters fitted! Talk about pointless extra weight. :facepalm:

    umop3pisdn
    Free Member

    Serious about spending money on unnecessary upgrades, perhaps…

    bjj.andy.w
    Free Member

    Did the last mid week PETTS TT of the year on Tuesday (there’s actually two more events, a two up TT then a hill climb the following week) coming 4th on the night in very difficult conditions. The headwind for the first four miles or so was horrendous ! In fact I was 3mph down on my average speed for that section compared to when I did my PB three weeks ago 🙁 Anyway in the overall standings (where they take your best 8 positions out of the 16 that are held) I came first in veteran and second overall. To say I’m happy would be an understatement, especially seen as this is my first season as a TT’er. Learnt loads (and still am I hasten to add) and with a good winters training, hopefully a proper TT bike (if the good lady allows :wink:) I’ll come back stronger and faster next year. Really fancy doing some of the longer courses because if my road riding is anything to go by (where I seem to get stronger as the ride goes on) these might suit me better.
    I’ve still got three more events to do, (as well as the PETTS ones above ^^) a 25mile one held nearby on roads that I know well then two 10mile ones on course L1015 (Levans) looking forward to these, quite a quick course if conditions are good I’m told 😀

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Good to meet TiRed at Hillingdon today.. A bit disappointed in myself as I averaged 20w lower than last time, albeit only 1 second slower than the previous PB time probably due to the new skin suit. HR was higher too so I wonder if some quite hard turbo intervals I’d done Saturday & Monday have left me a bit tired (no pun intended).

    There was also a moderate wind going across the circuit head on in two short straights which wasn’t there last time.

    Still finding it weirdly enjoyable though. On to my first 25m on Sunday.

    DT78
    Free Member

    What wheels are those? Aren’t they flexy at that low weight?

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Rode the Westerly Hillingdon 10.35 with Kryton this evening (then went back to work!). Managed a PB (I think) of 23:18 for 7th overall. The other six riders all had disk wheels – mine’s on it’s way! That would be a short 22 for a 10 mile TT.

    Pacing for the 11 laps: HR ZONE: time, was ramped up:
    1: 3.5-4.1 (2:22) warm up lap
    2-4: 4.1-4.2 (2:09 x3)
    5-7: 4.3-4.4 (2:08-2:06)
    8-10: 4.5 (2:06-2:04)
    11: hard as I can (2:02)

    Every lap was equal or faster than the previous lap. Pleased but will move zones a notch higher for tomorrow’s Hounslow 10 as I had a bit left in the tank.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Is anyone happy to suggest a good pacing strategy for my first 25 on Sunday’s TT?

    Being a weaker climber my thoughts where to maintain a steady pace well under FTP – say HR zone 4.0 – until the 18m mark and then smash the rest by gradually increasing my pace until smashing the last mile. Fwiw I’m thinking I should be able to get 1:10 perhaps? As its my first I’m fully prepared to be Wrong in all aspects!

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Kryton, for first 25 that sounds reasonable (though as said, if you can smash the last mile you’ve left it too late 😉 ). Just do something you know you can finish with and set yourself a marker. Then look at the data and use that for future races. FWIW my 25 power is only about 5% down on my 10 power. There isn’t usually that much in it.

    ferrals
    Free Member

    Hillclimbs!

    Strangely I was thinking about trying that that this morning. Is there a website you can find out about where to do them? I’d only do if south wales based. Can’t see anything on BC

    Doing on a 13kg basic cyclocross bike wont be ideal but…

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Ferrals, look at the CTT website for open events. May be able to find some more on the South Wales DC site (they usually list club events too.)

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Kryton, for first 25 that sounds reasonable (though as said, if you can smash the last mile you’ve left it too late ). Just do something you know you can finish with and set yourself a marker. Then look at the data and use that for future races. FWIW my 25 power is only about 5% down on my 10 power. There isn’t usually that much in it.

    ok, so perhaps more evenly paced then, so instead I might start off 5% below FTP, try not to get carried away then use what I have left on that last 7 mile flat section, perhaps also using RPE as a guide to how I’m feeling as I approach the mid section climbs and adjust accordingly.

    As you say its a learning curve anyway. From an experience perspective my MTB races are 60 – 90 mins sprint start and flat out for the duration as energy declines, so other than the sprint start I should be able use that as a guide.

    matts
    Free Member

    Is there a website you can find out about where to do them?

    They’re CTT events. So got to https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/find-events and filter by District “South Wales” and type (or distance) of “hill climb”

    Also, most club events will let you ride if you’re in a district affiliated club. Find out who your other local clubs are and contact them to find out dates.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    A 25 TT is an FTP test, so you should finish with an average power of your FTP. In fact one should really reverse this and say whatever you think your FTP is, a 25 will tell you what it really is 😉

    I like heart rate zones because the numbers are easy to look at (X.Y) and they change a bit slower than power (unless you smooth power on your Garmin to, say 10 sec average).

    Set a target time (one hour was my target) and break it down into four segments of 15 minutes. Then pick a starting value and ramp it up from there. To be honest, you will be bordering zone 3/4 for most of the ride (sweet spot), with lower at the beginning and higher at the end. I rode to 3.8/3.9/4.0/4.1, and finished hard as I could for the last few minutes. Had 39 points in the red (or 60% Tempo and 40% threshold). By contrast, yesterday’s 10 was 9% Tempo and 91% threshold).

    Going harder may have made me faster, but it is also more likely I’d have gone slower. Achieved my aim (just). Pacing will achieve yours.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    A 25 TT is an FTP test, so you should finish with an average power of your FTP. In fact one should really reverse this and say whatever you think your FTP is, a 25 will tell you what it really is

    Though also worth remembering that a TT is all about going as fast as you can and not about making the most power. You can make a lot of power but still ride a course badly and go a lot slower than you could have done.

    I like heart rate zones because the numbers are easy to look at (X.Y) and they change a bit slower than power (unless you smooth power on your Garmin to, say 10 sec average).

    FWIW I use a 3 second avg and a lap avg (with auto lap every 2 miles on a 10, and 5 miles on a 25.) Works quite well as the 3 second gives a bit of smoothing but is still fairly responsive (10s was too laggy for me) and the lap avg lets me know if I’m reasonably on track with my effort.

    matts
    Free Member

    ok, so perhaps more evenly paced then, so instead I might start off 5% below FTP, try not to get carried away then use what I have left on that last 7 mile flat section, perhaps also using RPE as a guide to how I’m feeling as I approach the mid section climbs and adjust accordingly.

    As you say its a learning curve anyway. From an experience perspective my MTB races are 60 – 90 mins sprint start and flat out for the duration as energy declines, so other than the sprint start I should be able use that as a guide.

    How are you measuring FTP – do you have a PM or are you going off HR?

    With MTB races, you usually have to sprint at the start to ensure you don’t get stuck behind slower riders on the technical parts of the course. With a TT, you don’t want to do that. However you also don’t want to ride at 250W for 24 miles and then 350W for the last mile. If you’re going off RPE, then make sure you start off steady and let your HR climb slowly to threshold, then just hold on for dear life until 20 miles. Then when you think it can’t get any worse, give it a bit more.

    If you don’t vomit after crossing the line, go back and do it again. 😈

    Stick a gel in the leg of your shorts. An ideal time to take it would be coming up to a junction about half way. Then if you have no pockets, you can drop the wrapper by a marshall. I also try and take 1/3 of a bottle and try to sip every few miles to keep my throat wet. If I don’t, I’ll be retching for the last 5 miles. If you know the course, you can plan where to grab a drink at junctions or RABs. If not try to look at the course on maps to work out where you’ll be slowing down and tape a note on your top tube.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Holy crap, whatever happened to just riding our bikes? 😀

    matts
    Free Member

    FWIW I use a 3 second avg and a lap avg (with auto lap every 2 miles on a 10, and 5 miles on a 25.) Works quite well as the 3 second gives a bit of smoothing but is still fairly responsive (10s was too laggy for me) and the lap avg lets me know if I’m reasonably on track with my effort.

    I do pretty much this. My Garmin screen is:

    3 second power
    Lap power (auto-lap every 2k)
    Av power
    HR
    Distance

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Stick a gel in the leg of your shorts. An ideal time to take it would be coming up to a junction about half way. Then if you have no pockets, you can drop the wrapper by a marshall. I also try and take 1/3 of a bottle and try to sip every few miles to keep my throat wet. If I don’t, I’ll be retching for the last 5 miles. If you know the course, you can plan where to grab a drink at junctions or RABs. If not try to look at the course on maps to work out where you’ll be slowing down and tape a note on your top tube.

    Thanks. Actually, I have no pockets so so I need 2 bottles one with tube/tools?

    The course profile (I linked it above) is 1/3 flat, middle some short climbs, turn at a roundabout and repeat. So I’d planned to tape the mile markers for where the flat ends/starts (7.5m and 18m respectively) as one thing I am good at is turning a big gear on the flat. I’d aim to ride these sections faster and not go into the red on the climbs as this is my weak part of the course.

    Good idea from Mr blobby about the 5m power lap time *adjusts garmin*

    matts
    Free Member

    Holy crap, whatever happened to just riding our bikes?

    That does happen. Just not in the TT thread. 😉

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Thanks. Actually, I have no pockets so so I need 2 bottles one with tube/tools?

    I don’t bother with any tools or tubes, though have on occasion had a very long walk back to the car 🙁

    I also don’t bother with bottles or gels, it’s only an hours efforts. Make sure you’re hydrated (and maybe knock back a gel if you think it’ll help) before the start.

    matts
    Free Member

    Those climbs on the F1 aren’t that bad. It’s a bit worse than the old F1 (north of the new lights at Black Cat), but not too bad. Max is about 5% for a few hundred yards. The fastest pacing would be to up your pace *slightly* on the climbs and recover a bit on the DH before back to threshold on the flats. You want to spend as little time as possible on the slow bits of the course, as these are where you spend most of the time.

    Some people I know take a tool bottle. Some just tape a tube to their saddle. Some just take nothing and walk back if they flat. Ya pays ya money….

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    The fastest pacing would be to up your pace *slightly* on the climbs and recover a bit on the DH before back to threshold on the flats.

    Also don’t have a little recovery before you’re back up to speed. Once over the lip of the hill it’s time for a dig to get back up to speed quickly, then settle back into your rhythm. Takes a lot more effort to accelerate than it does to maintain speed.

    matts
    Free Member

    BTW, from what I can gather from your previous posts, you’re about 73K and pushing about 285W for a 10? You’re probably looking at a bit over the hour for the F1 if you’re average aero-ness for a road bike with clips, skinsuit, TT lid, and road wheels.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Also don’t have a little recovery before you’re back up to speed. Once over the lip of the hill it’s time for a dig to get back up to speed quickly, then settle back into your rhythm. Takes a lot more effort to accelerate than it does to maintain speed.

    My 40s improvement at Hillingdon the other week was that reason exactly – I learned I should be pushing watts as I cam round the corner onto the straight where the road dips and the bike gathers speed – its tempting to soft pedal but then you lose loads of speed on the following straight.

    BTW, from what I can gather from your previous posts, you’re about 73K and pushing about 285W for a 10? You’re probably looking at a bit over the hour for the F1 if you’re average aero-ness for a road bike with clips, skinsuit, TT lid, and road wheels.

    s’right although watts was 253 at my best 2 weeks ago – hence why I’d be please with 1:10 or under at my first attempt. I have put on a couple of pounds though (August is rest month and I’be been off the bike with injury).

    Thanks for all the advice chaps, I’ll post the resulting performance on Sunday afternoon.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Best of luck there Kryton.

    No racing for me this weekend. I was going to do a club 10 tonight but got knocked off while out training on the TT bike the other evening, grazes down the forearm would make riding in position a little uncomfortable 🙁

    matts
    Free Member

    Nightmare!

    I’m off camping with the family for 2 weeks so no racing for me. We’re staying near 100 Climbs 39 (Burway) for a week, then 100 Climbs 126 (Mam Tor) for a week so I’m going to stick the bike in the car and do some hill climb training when I can get out.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    I’m off camping with the family for 2 weeks so no racing for me

    Race taper, surely 😉

    I carry an 80 mm valve stem inner tube and an innovations microflate nano (I can take the tyres off without levers). I don’t like walking. Gel under the leg gripper, wrapper returned there when empty. MY skinsuits have pockets as they are endurance and road racing.

    Hounslow 10 tonight… Might adjust the Garmin display to autolap on distance.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    grazes down the forearm would make riding in position a little uncomfortable

    If you saw the state of TiReds face you’d be ashamed at that statement 😆

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Kryton, real reason is I don’t want to get bloody marks on my new NoPinz suit 🙂

    matts
    Free Member

    And didn’t Tom D just win a silver medal riding WITH A BROKEN ARM!!!

    HTFU, dude. 🙄

    😆 😆 😆

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    And did you see how happy Tom D looked about that 😉

    TiRed
    Full Member

    If you saw the state of TiReds face

    Squeezing the helmet over the swollen eye socket was errr challenging. Have grazes on forarm too, along with road rash on shoulder and knee. I’ll try for a dashing selfie later in the skinsuit. 😆

    Rule 5. It’s only pain. We have drugs for that – ones you done need a TUPE for.

    TiRed
    Full Member

    Definitely one to forget! Pace was fine for the first half, but 2/3 of the way round I developed pins and needles in both hands and forearms. So eased back and limped home. I’ve put it down to my new road mitts being too tight, and I had to undo them. Not worn them before and won’t be wearing them again! Of course it could have been oxygen deprivation, trapped nerve, etc…

    Pace was a notch higher than the week before (start at 4.1-4.2 and then +0.1 per 4km). Time was 90 seconds down. Very unnerving.

    Triked to work for a rest today 😀 . Heart rate barely gets into Zone 2 on the recumbent three-wheeled deckchair.

    hjghg5
    Free Member

    It feels like my season is starting to wind down with only one* more week of club events to go, but I had a ride on V718 today so it was time for a big effort. It was pretty windy so I didn’t expect anything special, and was surprised to get within 6 seconds of my PB (on the same course on a much better day).

    Even better I chicked my OH for the first time ever and took a massive 31 seconds out of him. I’m not going to let him forget that one in a hurry!

    *technically two but I’m marshalling the last one.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Well, F1B/25 down and my first 25m As previously posted I’d have really like to have done it in 1:10, ended up with 1:05.28 which I’m pleased with, especially as I woke up with a migraine type headache (not usual for me) this morning and took inbruprofen before leaving home at 5:15am. 😯

    However, the whole thing was bizarre. I decided to ride using power but with one eye on HR zones as per TiRed. So first off sticking to 10% below FTP for the first I found myself in Zone 5.1 which I put down to start line adrenalin, so carried on watching and it never changed for the whole race. Instead I found my power dropping steadily albeit (using mrblobbys advice) my 5ms “laps” were going from 13 to 12 mins. At 8m my head was telling me I shouldn’t be doing this but I focused on getting to the turn back. I caught my minute man at about 13.5m – he was full aero TT – and started to wonder if I’d gone too hard despite the low power numbers. Kept it the same then found myself just willing the whole thing to end with about 5m to go. At this point I tried to focus on pedalling circles and staying aero as my forearms were aching and upping power to FTP which i found really hard to keep steady. Although I felt really tired at the end and lightheaded, I think I could have little a little more in. I was fine from a cardio perspective, just the power issue.

    Just about to upload to strava but my average I believe is 22.8mph at 206w – not exactly sparkling!

    I wonder (ref the migraine headache) I’m a bit off colour?

    There were some fast times though, a couple of 56, 3 or four 57’s and a bunch of people around my own time. Not sure of finishing position.

    What a hateful thing to do 😉 😀

    breninbeener
    Full Member

    Im sat at home feeling a little fed up as im suffering with a heavy cold. Im really enjoying this thread as im looking forwards to trying some TT in 2017.

    Having worked hard to bring my twins up, they are now off to college in a few weeks. This means i have guilt free time to train for the coming season.

    Im looking for guidance on how to train and what kit to use.

    Im 50 yrs of age and havnt ever done anything competitive on a bike other than some triathlon. With limited time i have previously just ridden hard and had fun rather than structured training. I work a variety of different shifts so a rigid training program has always been a challenge in itself…..more time should really help with that.

    i have access to a wattbike at the local gym. I have a cf roadbike with some training wheels and a pr of 40mm carbon tubs. I have some tribars that i put on for my tri races. I also have an older Quintana Roo Kilo tribike with 650c wheels. Its 9speed and i rarely ride it.

    I have a garmin tri watch that will speak to hrm, speed, cadence and power meter. I dont have a powermeter but i think id like one. I was a physiologist at college and sadly these metrics of performance excite me!

    I live in a hilly area and i have a tourer with mudguards that i can do poor weather rides on, but im imagining some structured stuff on the wattbike.

    Does anyone have any advice or prescriptive plans so i can start training in a structured way rather than the time starved haphazard rides i have been doing?

    thanks

    dirtyrider
    Free Member

    Cracking effort kryton, especially for a first attempt – surely you got to be wondering if you can go sub 1 hour now 😉

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