So going from 3×10 non-clutched derailleur (ran drivetrain into the ground new jockeys, CR, cassette the lot) to a 1×10 with expander set up carries a fair old premium, cheaper than the frankly extortionate 1×11 though.

Options are, give or take a few quid with different components:

Replace whats there = £97 (Deore Cassette) – £109 (XT Cassette)
1×10 = about £158 (with Deore clutched der)
1×11 = £218

So here goes:

1) Derailleur needs to be clutched right
2) NW ring as good as essential
3) 32T front chain ring
4) New steel single chain ring bolts required
5) Longer B tension screw dependant on derailleur
6) XT 11/36 cassette for ease of splitting
7) Replacement for 17T
8) 40t or 42t expander (I do use the current 36T on steeps).

Minefield? You’re spot on.

> 1) Derailleur needs to be clutched right

Good, but not essential. Why not try what you have first?

> 2) NW ring as good as essential

Good, but not essential. Why not try what you have first? Leave on front derailleur or get a chain keeper.

> 3) 32T front chain ring

What is your wheel size? What kind of terrain and fitness?

> 4) New steel single chain ring bolts required

Yup.

> 5) Longer B tension screw dependant on derailleur

Don’t need an expander cog. They are expensive and MTFU.

> 6) XT 11/36 cassette for ease of splitting

Good cassette, no need to split it.

> 7) Replacement for 17T

Not needed if no expander.

> 40t or 42t expander (I do use the current 36T on steeps).

Don’t need it. They are expensive for one gear. Go with 11-36 and TTFU.

@ nikk

Wheels = 26 so new bike yes 😆 well given the DT is borked as well.

MTFU TTFU hahahaha yeah probably. 42T for them days when I can’t be arsed but go out riding anyway.

Mech does not need to be clutched. It’s a nice addition and I’d always choose it, but the narrow/wide is doing all the real work.

Narrow wide- not essential but so much better than a standard ring, and so inexpensive, it’s daft not to imo. Standard ring with a chain device (which can be your existing mech) works pretty poorly- it’s useful for checking out gearing options but ime that’s really all it’s good for, chain comes off constantly on anything but smooth trails.

Absolutely don’t buy a chain device for this at this point, it’s something most people don’t need, try it without. You still hear about people buying a chain device to use with a standard ramped ring, but this is basically stupid, it’s a penny pinch on the important part, and then spending more to try and fix it, which doesn’t even really work. Just say no. It’s not often anything’s so clearcut but this is a no-brainer.

All the expander stuff- you can do this sequentially, try it with an 11-36T and just see how you like it. For me, it’s not enough, on a big day with big climbs but you lose nothing by trying it first without he expander and things are much simpler without it.

@ Northwind – sage advice! think I’ll try and MTFU first before conceding defeat and getting the expander, got a feeling I’m holding off the inevitable though!

Had no plans for a chain device was going to go clutch and NW cos it looks neater and I should imagine it’s a good deal quieter.

I’ve also heard and seen (well once) current Shimano clutches aren’t all that reliable! Having said that I’m almost accepting new bottom brackets every year as a norm like a good little consumer, why not add another component 😉

As long as you get a med cage mech, and not a zee fr or similar, you’ll have far greater chance of reliability.

I have spaced the 32 ring 2mm inwards, to me it looks like the chainline is better that way – this means you won’t need the shorter bolts if you go this route.

l.e. Actually, nevermind – on 1×10 you probably won’t need to space it, I have 1×11 and the large cog is dished inward.

Sunrace MS3 cassette £50

Chain £13

Bolts £10

NW ring £26

£110

1) Derailleur needs to be clutched right
Not essential

2) NW ring as good as essential
If you run a chain guide no. Without a guide yes.

3) 32T front chain ring
Whatever suits your chainset/legs. 30t will also fit most 104bcd 4-bolts (and you won’t need new bolts).

4) New steel single chain ring bolts required
Single ring bolts or use spacers on normal bolts

5) Longer B tension screw dependant on derailleur
Possibly. Or fit a Radr cage.

6) XT 11/36 cassette for ease of splitting
This is what I run

7) Replacement for 17T
remove 15t and 17t and fit a 16t. Handy for flat sections

Northwind’s spot on.

Also, your triple cranks will give a better chainline than a double

If your mech’s goosed just get a clutch mech, and NW. 30T will make new bolts and an expander unneccesary. Don’t worry about spinning out in 11.
So about £60. And shorten your chain of course.

Then another £xxx when you realise it’s still 9 gears too many and buy a ss 🙂

None of my X1 bikes have clutch mechs or NW chain rings but I do use very small top chain guides.
I’ve not had a chain drop in years. Ok once, when I threw the fatbike over a fence ( I got chain goo on a new Jersey )

I just bought XT 1×11 (mech, shifter, cassette, chain and oval front ring), £215 all in. It works, perfectly.

Replaced an XT 1×10 (which although 3 chains old, has enough life left for the spare bike) – this ran a Hope NW and expander, XT cassette and Zee shifter and mech. Which was though lighter than the new 1×11, but didn’t work as well.

The gearing is really dependent on how fit you are and the type of riding – where I am 30/32 front combined with a 40/42 rear seems pretty much the norm.

One of my bikes had n/w (on one) and a clutched mech (zee). The other had a normal SS chainring and a normal mech.

Both work fine.

I’ve never needed/used an expander, below 36t i get off and push, it’s quicker.

Yet to drop a chain using a NW chainring and a clutch mech (this is on an HT). Sometimes I have the clutch mech set to off and still no chain drop so it looks like the NW is the key part.

Gearing: find an on-line calculator and figure out what you are prepared to miss. Typically when using an extender you’ll lose about 3 ratios off the total range so it’s up to you how to split them, personally losing a couple at the top end is less of a loss as by the time I’m spinning out on the 11T I’m considering freewheeling.

£13 NW chainring

11-36 should be fine? if not, get a 30T chainring from the likes of superstar.

you can use chainring spacers too, cheaper than new bolts.

personally, I think the clutch mech is a great thing. You should be able to pick up a used but not abused XT for about £25-30. I run a NW with non clutch mech on my hack bike and have had the chain off a few times, whereas I’ve had clutch mech on singlespeed/DH chainring without it dropping.

If you were going to muck around with the expander ring and all that entails is the price difference to just going 1×11 that bad (time/faff vs money)! Factor in that you could sell your current shifters.

I bought your exact list (xt cassette, gx shifter & Mech, kmc chain, superstar NW, oneUP 42t inc 17t) It all looks great, but for some reason my chain is dropping within two turns, madness.

Thanks for the advice all.

Had a think and 1×10 seems a bodge too far and is actually not much cheaper to do it properly (with expander & replacement rings) in my circumstance (no transferable components except cranks) than 1×11 for what seems by all accounts a compromised bodge! The cost of a boutique cassette with questionable durability and shifting does not appeal either. So unless a reasonably priced purposed 10 speed cassette appears, hell will freeze over before SRAM & Shimano, what with 1×11 and the new standards to push, so unfortunately I’m ooout.

It’s not the mechanical faff that doesn’t bother me at all. I do all my car, bikes and van servicing/repairs including jobs for other people and have done for years, push bikes are relatively easy to work on IME.

So 14 is the magic number hence wider axle standards!

I’ve never quite been able to get the smaller sprockets indexing that well, I may try one of hose radcage things, or the wee mech link.

Bump

Just picked up a 1 x 10 set up from the classifieds so after 8 years of single speed I’m going back to gears…. Thought I had everything and was going to build up today then I saw this thread and kept reading the word chain device.

I forgot about this. So questions are:

A: do I need one? I have a Santa Cruz chameleon with no isg mount.
B: I have a 32t hope chain ring but not NW (will I die)
C: deralier is an xtr standard one not a clutchy thing (will I die)

Thought this would be easy but it’s looking like a bit of a faff now and I was hoping not to spend any more cash.

Tl:dr –
A: no
B: no
C: no

A – I’ve not dropped a chain on my 1x setup but I don’t do big jumps, drops or the like. YMMV

B – The main thing about the single ring up front is that the chain ring doesn’t have the ramps needed to switch between rings. The NW “addition” just helps keep the chain from rattling and trying to move off the ring. Are you sure that the Hope chain ring isn’t NW? They don’t call them that but Retainer Rings.

C – I often set the clutch to off by accident and only notice when cleaning the bike after a ride. I don’t notice any difference between the two settings.

The chain is a standard Xt 10 speed for what it’s worth.
I do like to prat around on small jumps and the like so I’m thinking it may be worth just fitting a device to stop the chain coming off…. Any recommendations on a cheap one (superstar components 20 quid jobby?)
Chain ring is definatly no NW though.

Donks – I have a Stinger chain device (BB mount) not being used (black, very little use)…£14 posted?

just reading northwinds comment above regarding the narrow wide chain ring meaning you wouldn’t need a chain device… Is this the case. I’d rather just buy a new chain ring than a chain device. How does the NW stop the chain from popping off then?

My experience is a bit different, standard “non-narrow-wide” chainring was absolutely useless for me, I tried a couple. I guess it’s just where you ride, how you ride. Nothing to do with jumps, it got shaken off pretty much as soon as I pedalled in anything rough. But, try it first, you’ve got the bits after all!

Said up the page but I’ll repeat it, a top-only chain device on a standard chainring is less effective than a narrow/wide chainring. And the clutch mech is just a little upgrade on that. So, if you want to change a part, change that ring, it’s the weakest part of your setup. If you can get away with it as it is, then have at it but I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t work well

Stinger isn’t really any use for a 1×10 setup btw, it needs to work in association with a mech. By the time a chain’s falling off the bottom it’s usually fallen off the top. But really i would say forget about chain devices entirely.

(I have a little device now, on the big bike… I’ve only dropped the chain while riding twice in the last year and both times was in a race run, annoying. So I added a device but it’s purely for that last tiny improvement. I wouldn’t bother for normal riding.)

Right then…. Just reading about the fangled NW chain rings then (funny how out of the loop single speeding makes you) and I see the principal (fat and thin teeth fit into the corresponding chain profile for a tighter fit) so I think I’ll bite the bullet and get a NW ring and then see what happens.

Cheers for the bike tech update I’m late back onto the scene

Anyone used a 10 speed Deore cassette (11-36) with an expander cog?
I have a virtually new one and it’s pinned all the way through bar the 2 smallest cogs – 11 & 13.
Normally if you had an XT you’d swap out the 15 or 17 for the expander cog as I can’t do that could I lose the 11 and get a bigger locknut to tighten up against the 13?

Well after saying I was ooout, I’m now in, what am I like 😀

Surace 11-40t cassette
Deore Shadow + (med cage) mech
Rad Cage
Absolute Black NW 32t
KMC X10 chain
Ground down washers as spacers 8)

Total = £163

Was not prepared to put up with temperamental shifting (the cassette could prove to be the fly in the ointment) and flaky knife edge set-up, so just bought the Rad Cage to be done with it, hopefully anyway. Waiting for the cassette, everything else fitted and ready to roll. A bit apprehensive at the thought of a 32-11 highest gear and sand castle durability! will report back on this thrilling saga #expensivedowngrade

And … ? Is it good?

paid 170 for my XT 11sp but you would have needed a N/W ring too so £200. This is much better than a 1×10 with expander

Go on then where did you get 11speed XT for 170?

bike24 – cassette, shifter, rear mech, chain

@ tallmart10 – Only shown it a quick street ride and pump track so far, so not really put through it’s paces but initial impressions are good.

Things I’ve noted:

1) Setup has to be pretty precise then shifting is as fast as it was before. Got a feeling as it wears it might need fettling.

2) Had to space the NW ring inward with a thick crush washer because the chainline was way off. Removing the press fit BB shim would do the same thing but I’m not smashing out a few rides old XTR.

3) The alloy cassette is a bit tinny sounding on the 36t and one other in the stand but quiet when peddling, only time will tell how long it lasts or whether the teeth will need constant straightening.

4) On the 40t if you pedal backward the chain drops down the block, even with a Rad Cage fitted.

hmmmm not sure if the Rad Cage (rip off for what it is) was needed, didn’t try it without but anyway it shifts perfectly.

Ok another exciting instalment I’m sure you have all been waiting with bated breath!

A biblically wet Gisburn Forest ridden with extreme prejudice, well some mince and it didn’t miss a beat, got up all the hills too although they are not the toughest around are they!

4) On the 40t if you pedal backward the chain drops down the block, even with a Rad Cage fitted.

hmmmm not sure if the Rad Cage (rip off for what it is) was needed, didn’t try it without but anyway it shifts perfectly.

my XT 11sp does this too, its the chain line

It is all interesting stuff. I am thinking of bypassing 10 speed altogether as my drivertain is going to need replacing soon, and going straight to 1×11 from my XT 3×9 with M771 triple crankset.

I think I’d need:

Hope NW ring (32 or 30? on 26″ old-skool wheels) – it seems chainline should be ok on middle ring?
New M8000 11-42 XT cassette, chain and rear shifter.
Replace derailleur with clutch version – not sure if I can go for a used 10 speed M786 shadow plus derailleur or if I need the 11 speed – are the pull ratios the same, or does only the 11 speed derailleur work with the 11 speed shifter?

I can then bin my old front derailleur, shifter and 2 rings.

I think it’d cost me about £180 and then I can sell the shifters to recoup some of the outlay.

The thing holding me up (apart from cash) is how finickety is the setup. I don’t mind spending time getting it right at first but don’t want to have to continually fettle it to keep it sweet. I hate out of true drivetrains, they drive me bonkers. And not being able to backpedal when whizzing downhill would be just bad 🙂

Anyone made this giant leap yet? If so any advice gratefully appreciated

you need chain, shifter, cassette, mech all 11 speed. have a look at the german sites for savings.

Things to bear in mind going from triple to single:

1) Don’t bank on the chainline being right on any Shimano crankset as the BB spacer is always specified to be on the drive side and on the middle ring i.e. inside the 104 BCD mounting spider, it was out by a mile on mine, with many others reporting the same thing. Obviously with a threaded BB it’s really easy to swap the spacer, press fit it’s easier to space the ring.

2) Replacing 3×10 = about 97 quid (without mech)
doing 1×10 properly about 65% more and 1×11 just over double the cost of triple at current UK prices.

I wasn’t prepared to pay over double to replace my drivetrain which will need doing again in a year or twos time at a push! I have begrudgingly paid about 65% more for less gears, an expensive cassette, new clutch dérailleur and Rad Cage. If money was no object I’d go 1×11 with out a doubt and will do next time round when it has probably come down in price.

32t on mine not really noticed the loss of the easiest gear up hills, but not been on tarmac yet where no doubt I will notice the loss of the hardest gears.