Viewing 40 posts - 401 through 440 (of 1,032 total)
  • "1,400 children were subjected to "appalling" sexual exploitation in Rotherham"
  • jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    I agree that it’s not a party political issue per se…

    all major parties have failed the countries kids on both a local and national level.

    That several MPs and councillors have been involved in abuse themselves further erodes confidence in the current system.

    Of course, some positive change is being implemented, but there is still a culture of cover-up as the shambles surrounding the national inquiry has shown.

    Despite being sourced from New Zealand, even the latest head of the inquiry is fairly cosy with the establishment… the father of her 1st daughter is well acquainted with Camilla.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    And I bet they both know Kevin Bacon

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Porky dudes aside, did you know that like Canada and Australia, the ultimate authority over New Zealand is the Queen?

    That means all judges must take an oath to the Queen.

    You may think it’s just a ceremonial title, but as the MI6/CIA coup of Gough Whitlam’s government in Australia shows, there is much power at work beyond the reach of democracy…

    Though I guess the Royal Family’s unique secrecy laws already prove that

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    antigee
    Full Member

    As an aside Cameron is one of 6 Oxfordshire MPs (mostly Tory with 1 Labour). The council is Labour controlled. Its not a party political issue IMO.

    my understanding: Oxford City Council is Labour controlled. But Oxford County Council – the Authority which is criticised in the serious case review is in effect Conservative controlled, supported by 3 independents.

    No party politics involved? – just a coincidence that David Cameron trumps Labour’s Yvette Cooper’s proposals last week with a summit on the day this much delayed report is published?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @antigee – yes of course it’s the county council which would run children’s services.

    Certainly very very troubling

    binners
    Full Member

    Listening to the commentary on Radio 4 yesterday it seems the powers that be have decided to come out strongly and say that it has to be acknowledged that theres a racial element to this, with males from one particular ethnic group being disproportionately over-represented in abuse cases.

    While this is certainly true. I think the focus on this ‘misplaced political correctness’ while certainly a factor, is being shoved to the forefront, while the other issues – biblical scale incompetence, shameful complacency, and a total, wilful indifference to the suffering of children who were considered an inconvenience – is being handily glossed over

    And if thats the case then nothing is going to change. Apart from maybe some added racial tension.

    Its thoroughly depressing in its cynicism!

    kimbers
    Full Member

    The Times seem to be saying Dave and Nick dont take it seriously

    patriotpro
    Free Member

    And all the while the Beeb are still making the reference ‘predominantly Asian’…

    Have any of the paedos in Rotherham even been charged yet?!

    binners
    Full Member

    5 were convicted a few years ago. A few more were tried and found not guilty. The phrase ‘tip of the iceberg’ springs immediately to mind. A lot more would be behind bars if anyone in the police, or council had shown even the vaguest interest in the horrors that were occurring right underneath their noses.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    That’s cox one of the guys convicted wasn’t Asian patriot

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Agreed totally binners. I am truly appalled at this. It’s desperately sad and depressing it could have gone on for so long and on such a scale.

    Frankenstein
    Free Member

    I find it interesting that a protection service department didn’t do their jobs properly and said they would be accused of racism. Blame an ethnic group. Hey it works!

    Since when is being accused of being a pedofile racist Mr Protection Officer?

    Considering this is happening by white people all over the U.K. for decades but never hits the news unless it’s a celeb.

    patriotpro
    Free Member

    It’s desperately sad and depressing it could have gone on for so long and on such a scale.

    Like best part of two decades even…

    patriotpro
    Free Member

    That’s cox one of the guys convicted wasn’t Asian patriot

    It was more the ‘Asian’ tag I was shaking my head at…At least they narrow it down to ‘Eastern’ European when referring to certain issues.

    A fair few nationalities in Asia last time I looked.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    Whilst I’m not in favour of the mass cut and paste this makes interesting and depressign reading;

    IPCC to investigate allegations of historic corruption relating to child sexual abuse in the Metropolitan Police

    1) Allegation of a potential cover up around failures to properly investigate child sex abuse offences in South London and further information about criminal allegations against a politician being dropped.

    2) Allegation that an investigation involving a proactive operation targeting young men in Dolphin Square, was stopped because officers were too near prominent people.

    3) Allegation that a document was found at an address of a paedophile that originated from the Houses of Parliament listing a number of highly prominent individuals (MPs and senior police officers) as being involved in a paedophile ring and no further action was taken.

    4) Allegation that an account provided by an abuse victim had been altered to omit the name of a senior politician.

    5) Allegation that an investigation into a paedophile ring, in which a number of people were convicted, did not take action in relation to other more prominent individuals

    6) Allegations that a politician had spoken with a senior MPS officer and demanded no action was taken regarding a paedophile ring and boys being procured and supplied to prominent persons in Westminster in the 1970s.

    7) Allegation that in the late 1970s a surveillance operation that gathered intelligence on a politician being involved in paedophile activities was closed down by a senior MPS officer.

    8 ) Allegation that a dossier of allegations against senior figures and politicians involved in child abuse were taken by Special Branch officers.

    9) Allegations that a surveillance operation of a child abuse ring was subsequently shut down due to high profile people being involved.

    10) Allegations of child sex abuse against a senior politician and a subsequent cover-up of his crimes.

    11) Allegations that during a sexual abuse investigation a senior officer instructed the investigation be halted and that that order had come from ‘up high’ in the MPS.

    12) Allegation of a conspiracy within the MPS to prevent the prosecution of a politician suspected of offences.

    13) Allegations against a former senior MPS officer regarding child sex abuse and that further members of the establishment including judges were involved. It is claimed that no further action was taken.

    14) Allegation that police officers sexually abused a boy and carried out surveillance on him. Further allegations of financial corruption in a London borough police force.

    A further two referrals of a similar nature have been received from the MPS and are currently being assessed.

    https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/ipcc-investigate-allegations-historic-corruption-relating-child-sexual-abuse-metropolitan

    digga
    Free Member

    Something is truly rotten here.

    The point Jivehoneyjive made a few weeks back about Vaz is valid – I for one, do not think that is entirely the construct of conspiracy theorists and is but one example of positions of power contributing to, or facilitating abuses.

    Clearly now the IPCC has seen enough to want to conduct its won investigation into how the Met fits into this, but there seems little doubt there were many factors at play.

    I feel there is a huge degree of blame to be laid at the PC brigade who for so long (and this was clear from the Rotherham cases) resisted any common sense, racially-based profiling of offenders.

    In a similar way, it appears that in the Oxford educational establishment, university staff were able to conduct a campaign of abuse against students because they had politically correct friends in high places.

    “Oxford and Cherwell Valley College Head Sally Dicketts and Thames Valley Police Chief Constable Sara Thornton are both connected with the Women’s Leadership Network and political charity Common Purpose.”

    http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/accusations-student-abuse-and-child-pornography-cover-oxford-cherwell-valley-college

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Let’s hope that this investigation is thorough and throws light into some dark corners.

    digga
    Free Member

    There are so many fragments of the problem showing up, it does seem to build a very worrying picture: http://news.sky.com/story/1442551/was-man-murdered-for-exposing-paedophile-ring

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Lambeth(which is also alleged to include an Minister from Tony Blair’s Cabinet):

    Details of an internal investigation documenting allegations of sexual assaults and abuse carried out by officers within Lambeth council in the 1990s have been revealed. They include:

    :: There were two sites on Lambeth council property used to carry out sexual assaults. They were used for this purpose “on many occasions over the years”.

    :: Two private removal firms were “frequently” on site, and were believed to have removed evidence of equipment used during sexual assaults, and washed the area down. One firm had keys to all internal lockers, including a cabinet where evidence in a criminal case was kept and later went missing.

    :: Items handed to police following the rape of a female member of staff by a colleague on council premises included a semen-stained blanket, soiled tissues, cassettes and a penknife.
    Bulic Forsythe who worked at Lambeth Council and was murdered allegedly before blowing the whistle on abuse there

    Bulic Forsythe’s family have long believed he was murdered

    :: Bulic Forsythe, a manager in the housing department, told colleagues he was going to “spill the beans” after a visit to one of these sites.

    He clashed with an individual who held a senior position and is named in the report as the head of the ring involved in abuse, and then moved from the housing department to social services.

    Whilst in social services Bulic told another colleague he believed the individual in housing could still ‘get to him’. After his death in 1993, colleagues reported that a report he had compiled went missing from his office.

    :: Three male employees, including one in a senior position, were suspended from their jobs in the housing department as a result of the internal investigation.

    Despite the findings of rape and sexual assault, and possessing indecent images of children, they were suspended on grounds of a ‘breach of the council’s equal opportunities policy’.

    :: The report recommends a criminal investigation into the allegations of rape, child rape and images of abuse. The Metropolitan Police has confirmed no investigation was ever undertaken at the time.

    gives more credence to this:

    As the owner of several North Wales Care Homes, John Allen (also involved in trafficking kids to Dolphin Square)

    is linked to

    Michael Carroll, who ran carehomes in Lambeth

    That is before you factor in allegations of kids being trafficked to and from Northern Ireland via the same networks

    It now appears that the VIP paedophile network surrounding Elm Guest House and Dolphin Square is not only linked to North Wales care homes, but also to Kincora in Northern Ireland, which is also well known for involvement of the security services…

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/kincora-children-trafficked-throughout-uk-claims-former-resident-richard-kerr-30997734.html

    (from this thread, with the usual doubters: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-the-bbc-news-now/page/3)

    and yep, in addition to Leon Brittan, I also mentioned Lambeth several months ago

    Haters gonna hate…

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    I feel there is a huge degree of blame to be laid at the PC brigade

    That damn PC Brigade, going around abusing children, and then not reporting those responsible. All those non-white politicians and coppers – every single one of them got away with it because of the PC Brigade. They want hanging, if only we knew who they were.

    digga
    Free Member

    deadlydarcy – Member
    That damn PC Brigade, going around abusing children, and then not reporting those responsible. All those non-white politicians and coppers – every single one of them got away with it because of the PC Brigade. They want hanging, if only we knew who they were

    Clearly you are lazy as well as hard of thinking.

    It is emphatically not a non-white only problem. Not sure where you gleaned that (mistaken) nugget from, but it was neither explicit not implied.

    If you want to know who ‘they’ may be, you only need read the last paragraph of the article linked in the post.

    I’ll leave it here again, so you can get an adult to read it to you: http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/accusations-student-abuse-and-child-pornography-cover-oxford-cherwell-valley-college

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Clearly you are lazy as well as hard of thinking.

    Oh, getting the big guns out early. That hurts bad, man. 🙁

    Btw, I can’t see how anything involving senior politicians or police officers could be the fault of the PC Brigade. Nor do I know of anybody in the PC Brigade who’s been doing all this abusing.

    Finally, I tend not to read links when added by anybody who wants to blame the PC Brigade for abuses carried out anywhere. So, I’ll have to take your word for it on that one.

    cheekyboy
    Free Member

    Who are the PC brigade ?

    digga
    Free Member

    deadlydarcy – Member
    Clearly you are lazy as well as hard of thinking.Oh, getting the big guns out early.

    Afraid I’m fairly short of patience for sixth-form common room debating techniques.

    I suspected you didn’t even bother with the link. thanks for confirming.

    Cheekyboy, ditto.

    Here’s another, highly relevant piece for you both to ignore: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02m37ld

    This one is a video so requires no reading, just comprehension.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    As I said, I don’t click on stuff posted by folk who rant on about the “PC Brigade”. If you have anything worth reading to write, I’ll give it a shot. So far, you’re conforming to the stereotype though…do you feel the weight of the Brigade stopping you saying the things that are the truth but for us handwringing liberals stifling you? You are really hurting me with those insults though…please stop. 🙁

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    It’s a shame this is such a divisive issue: I’m sure deep down, everyone agrees that exploitation and abuse is abhorrent, no matter who does it, be they pakistani taxi drivers, policemen, or members of the council.

    However, when you have people in positions of power, with a duty of care, be they care home staff, policemen, judges, MPs, high ranking military officers and the intelligence services, who themselves are actively involved, you have to question the entire system which has allowed this to happen.

    Not forgetting of course:

    as Party members, many MPs have had involvement in local councils, many of which likely have child abuse scandals of their own…

    This is a watershed moment~ we will be able to see just how seriously those in power take exposing such horrendous exploitation…

    Including the current Home Secretary Theresa May:

    “She is neatly ignoring the fact that the Northern Ireland Assembly unanimously supports the inclusion of Kincora in the Westminster inquiry, because it knows that the local inquiry has no powers to compel evidence from MI5 and the Ministry of Defence and that it does not have the confidence of victims or potentially crucial witnesses.

    “Kincora should be investigated alongside claims of establishment involvement in child abuse rings in other parts of the UK.

    “With new allegations emerging of links between Kincora and paedophile rings elsewhere in the UK, the case for inclusion has never been stronger.

    “Kincora’s child abuse victims were badly let down in the 70s.

    “Sadly, they are being failed again now by this government.”

    The names being bandied around are indeed members of the political elite, much like Elm Guest House and Kincora, which both have several accounts of being used by the intelligence services for filming and blackmail purposes (a control mechanism if you will).

    There are several allegations implicating Lord Mountbatten in abuse at Kincora.

    Lord Mountbatten introduced Jimmy Savile to the Royal Family in the 60s and they were close from that time until his death in 2011.

    cheekyboy
    Free Member

    Afraid I’m fairly short of patience for sixth-form common room debating techniques.

    I suspected you didn’t even bother with the link. thanks for confirming.

    Cheekyboy, ditto.

    Well Digga I am not a hand wringing liberal, far from it.
    I do think that when expressions like PC Brigade are used the person using them is conforming to a stereotype that appears to be overtly aggressive rather than challenging from a more intellectual level.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31908431

    police, MPs, MI5 colluding to cover up abuse

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Conspiracy fact eh…

    MI5 does not have powers to arrest or execute a search warrant.
    Therefore, the Operations Branch of Special Branch as well as developing intelligence and conducting its own investigations, acted as the executive arm of MI5, making the arrests and conducting searches, as directed by MI5.

    This was particularly emphasized in the county forces Special Branch units, because in those days MI5 had no presence outside London.

    Hence the involvement of Special Branch in protecting Cyril Smith from arrest in Rochdale, detailed above which was certainly at the direction of MI5.

    In London Special Branch (SO12) had responsibility for, amongst other things, personal protection of (non-royal) VIPs and performing the role of examining officer at designated ports and airports.

    The investigative wing of the Special Branch known as X squad became the Metropolitan Police Anti-Terrorist Branch (SO13) in 1972.

    In the Metropolitan Police (which had national responsibilities at the time) it was grouped under the Assistant Commissioner Security, along with the Palace of Westminster Division SO17 (now CO7) (responsible for security of MPs), the Special Branch protection officers (now Specialist Protection Branch SO1) responsible for providing specialist protection (for the current and former Prime Ministers, Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Secretary of State for Defence and others) and the Royalty Protection Branch SO14.

    All of these squads liaised closely.

    noltae
    Free Member

    Like good ol’ H . G . Wells used to say “An open conspiracy”

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Interesting …. since “child abuse is central to the control structures of the political and religious elite”, how will the political and religious elite maintain control?

    The Queen must be very worried indeed.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Their chances are slim while I’m on the case 😀

    kimbers
    Full Member

    related to your investigations jhj?

    judges sacked for watching porn

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31920906

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Thanks for that kimbers, there is much to suggest that if justice is done, there will be many similar exposures of high level members of the judiciary in due course.

    Also thanks to wwaswas for bringing the IPCC investigations to our attention~ what concerns me about that is:

    a) IPCC don’t have powers to compel testimony

    b) IPCC don’t have a remit to investigate the Home Office, who are pulling the strings on Police forces across the country

    These investigations invariably refer back to historic cover up, but as the redrafting of Fiona Woolf’s letters to play down her relationship with Leon Brittan has shown, cover up methods are still being used and not only by the Home Office…

    Bearing in mind the hefty significance of the Official Secrets Act in preventing disclosure by whistleblowers:

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6PEH-jVT4c[/video]

    Why did MPs down vote John Mann’s amendment which will allow those who have signed the Official Secrets Act to provide evidence without fear of prosecution

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    Does the IPCC have a record on successful convictions from cases involving the establishment?

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Going by the verdict of the Home Affairs Select Committee inquiry, it doesn’t appear they’re that effective:

    woefully underequipped and hamstrung in achieving its original objectives. It has neither the powers nor the resources that it needs to get to the truth when the integrity of the police is in doubt.

    Also just found a bit more info on John Mann’s recent amendment allowing disclosure under the Official Secrets Act:

    digga
    Free Member

    cheekyboy – Member

    Well Digga I am not a hand wringing liberal, far from it.
    I do think that when expressions like PC Brigade are used the person using them is conforming to a stereotype that appears to be overtly aggressive rather than challenging from a more intellectual level.

    I’m not hugely exercised by people’s political leanings and, in fact, to say there is even the possibility of a definitive “right answer” in the polling booth is as overly-optimistic as it is simplistically wrong.

    However, when there have been forces at work to extinguish free expression and discussion, which have also facilitated misleading of the public and perhaps allowed crimes to go undetected and unpunished, then I think most of us would agree something is wrong.

    When the former chairman of the Equality and Right Commission suggests the debate about race has been stifled, something is clearly wrong. When we see what has happened in the OP – Rotherham – and now join the dots elsewhere, not only to other Pakistani Muslim gangs, but also to the broader cases of establishment figures, people in the education system, politicians, police, being complicit in abuse of vulnerable children and adults, you cannot fail to say ‘something’ very big has gone badly wrong.

    cheekyboy
    Free Member

    I’m not hugely exercised by people’s political leanings and, in fact, to say there is even the possibility of a definitive “right answer” in the polling booth is as overly-optimistic as it is simplistically wrong.

    However, when there have been forces at work to extinguish free expression and discussion, which have also facilitated misleading of the public and perhaps allowed crimes to go undetected and unpunished, then I think most of us would agree something is wrong.

    When the former chairman of the Equality and Right Commission suggests the debate about race has been stifled, something is clearly wrong. When we see what has happened in the OP – Rotherham – and now join the dots elsewhere, not only to other Pakistani Muslim gangs, but also to the broader cases of establishment figures, people in the education system, politicians, police, being complicit in abuse of vulnerable children and adults, you cannot fail to say ‘something’ very big has gone badly wrong.

    I totally agree with you, but the arguments against must be made more eloquently, otherwise the hand wringers will win by belittling your points by your choice of words/expressions.
    Why do you think Guardian readers always look so smug 😉

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    One for the Guardian readers: Our Cyril Smith story came out in 1979. What followed was a 36-year cover-up

    We also wrote to the then leader of the Liberal party, David Steel, for his comments. We quoted the response of the Liberal party press office, dated 22 April 1979, in our newspaper: “It is not a very friendly gesture, publishing that, all he seems to have done is spanked a few bare bottoms.” So, Steel chose to look the other way, and within a decade was recommending Smith for a knighthood. Fleet Street looked away at the time too. There was not a national paper newsdesk that did not have a copy of our well-sourced article. Smith threatened and blustered, and they all backed off.

    And one for those who prefer the Daily Mail: Why I fear this monstrous sex abuse cover-up is FAR worse than we know…

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    We quoted the response of the Liberal party press office, dated 22 April 1979, in our newspaper: “It is not a very friendly gesture, publishing that, all he seems to have done is spanked a few bare bottoms.”

    A bit misleading, it reads to me as though that sentence is a quote from a written response. In fact it’s just what someone said someone else said.

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