People tip guides?

That’s never even occurred to me, I’ve paid for my holiday and assumed the guide must be getting paid what he feels is ok from that. I’m not tight either, seriously, never even thought about a tip.

Although the idea of being a guide seems attractive I suspect the reality isnt always that good. I know I wouldnt want to do it. Being responsible for those people, having to be cheerful, having to ride not because you want to ride.

It seems bonkers that an mtb company wouldnt pay their guides properly, surely they are the most important thing on a mountain bike holiday?

You should also have a whip around for the chalet staff too.

@Maxkem – guides are important and I’d rather have them but location, quality of food, accomodation and scouting of trails plus the availability of van uplift are the most important things. I can read a map and with directions and If needed a GPS I can find my own way around.

some companies specify their guides have qualifications, proudly cite this to customers then go on to breach the guidelines those same qualifications state on things like guide/client ratios…

I’d agree that pay is held down by the “summer job” market, with people happily doing it short-term as a way to get a subsidised season riding.

That’s never even occurred to me, I’ve paid for my holiday and assumed the guide must be getting paid what he feels is ok from that. I’m not tight either, seriously, never even thought about a tip.

We always have a whip for the chalet staff and the guide/s. They’re usually the ones that have made the holiday enjoyable. We all know they’re not making much money, so stick your hand in your pocket and show your appreciation.

Tipped guides on every bike trip we’ve been on. Last one we were on everyone agreed to put 50 Euros in, so with 10 in the group the guides (3 of them, two riding and one driving) got 500 Euros between them. Think the biggest tip I’ve left has been about 70 Euros. Same for Chalet hosts when skiing, most people leave a tip if the service has been good.

@matt and @basque it’s great to get a sense of perspective from the inside and for that to be here on STW for public record.

@winterfold “middle aged men” !!! You git how very dare you 🙂

Most importantly, what are your expectations of remuneration?

doug_basqueMTB.com – Member

I got an application from a guy who was getting a basic pay but the company he was working for charged him for food and accommodation. At the end of the week he had to give them money. It’s wrong. The first time you find yourself on the hill with someone with a broken leg you will know how much of a responsible job it is. I pay my guides properly and I expect them to do a proper job, they don’t mess about, the don’t treat it as a holiday for themselves and they get paid for it. It’s not going to buy them a Ferrari but it is a proper, legal wage.

You get the other side though. I charge 50€ a day for day guiding and every year I get people telling me its too expensive. I had a group of four tell me it was a rip off because they “could get a ski guide for that”, how do you even respond to that?

Lots of other holiday companies pay properly too, having spoken to some of them about it. Like others say its not a job you do for money but similarly there should be a compensation attached to the responsibility, no?

Maybe it’s best for me to keep my mouth shut on things this close to home but its something I feel strongly about.

Spot on. Not an easy job, if you want to do a good job. Chances are, if you are enjoying it too much, then you are probably not working hard enough 😀

Tipping the guides- I’d buy them a couple of beers but I wouldn’t tip. It’d probably equate to near-on 10euros but for me giving cash is just another ‘tax’ if it makes sense. Beers feels better.

The prosecution rests, m’lord.

there are quite a few people who work for the same company as me who have this attitude… a paid holiday. they tend not to come back after the first year or, if they do stick it out, complain lots and have more problems with guests/tour organisation.

I wouldn’t argue with you there…

Again, it all comes down to working conditions. One company I was a second guide in the group, due to its size. So largely I had to lead the way on the DHs (or play sweeper and fix punctures!) and chat to/help motivate the guests on the climbs. Easy work, very little responsibility – all teh “mountain leadership” stuff was done by the head guide. It was also for the co. who’d paid for my qualification and first aid tickets, so I had absolutely no problem doing it.

The second bunch, I arrived with the guests, and it was pretty much “there’s your group, see you in a week’s time”. That was hard, stressful work. The first week I was leading guests on trails I hadn’t ridden in a year, the second week was the lemmings. It was a bloody steep learning curve and I wouldn’t work for them again unwaged.

Thing is, I can kinda see it from the company point of view as well? As someone filling in for a broken “proper” guide, or helping out during an extra busy week, I’m never going to be as good as one who’s doing it week in, week out, so I wouldn’t expect to be paid as one. That said, I’m also aware that while there’s people like me willing to do odd weeks/fortnights for nothing, then I’m not doing the pay rates for the real guides any favours. Swings and roundabouts again.

A lot of interesting comments on here, many of them pretty insightful

It happens to be a subject close to my heart since we’re actually looking to take on new staff to train up at the moment. Recruiting and retaining the best staff is something that we’ve spent a long time trying to get right over the years – and after 12 years, we’re still learning I must admit!

(Anyone reading this thread actually still looking for a job – get in quick because we are interviewing this month):
http://www.trailaddiction.com/guiding-jobs.php

There are never a shortage of keen applicants as many have pointed out here. Filtering out the right ones though, is the difficult bit. Part of that of course is offering the right pay deal for the right people.

Im surprised no-one has yet pointed out the obvious – regardless of your level of qualification, how can anyone actually “guide” if they don’t know where they are going properly, fully understand the local weather conditions and terrain, etc? (Generally speaking it takes at least a whole season where we operate before you’d be good enough to lead and be responsible for a group on your own, totally unaided IMHO)

In terms of pay for a good / experienced / fully qualified guide, Im definitely with Doug and Stevo. Its also a no-brainer if you want to offer a good holiday experience to customers. In my opinion the guides are THE most important part of any holiday. (For those who think otherwise, might it be that you never have been lucky enough to go out with a REALLY good guide before?) Put it this way, to our top guides we pay enough to get them back year after year (some are going into their 10th season now!) and we even have one senior guide who flies over from Queenstown (NZ), with his wife and child every summer in tow, just to come and work for us. And this is someone who runs his own guiding company in Queenstown during the European winter so its not like its his only biking fix of the year.

For a new guide / first season “trainee” (where basically the company you work for will be, investing a lot of time to train you up at their cost) the comparison to a apprentice scheme someone else mentioned is very much a good one. The realistic alternative for someone wanting to get into the game, would be to pay your own way in a resort for a season, train yourself (if you can!), then go in straight for the ‘big bucks’ next time around. But that first season will likely land you in a lot of debt. And could be pretty lonely, too.

What Im getting around to is, that 100 Euros a week is, I agree, not a lot (and will probably only attract people who are in it for a bit of a laugh). This might be genuinely OK for some operators – lets say where the routes are easy to learn and the paying customers are more recreational bikers than hardcore. But hoping for 400 Euros a week PLUS all your catering, accommodation, lift pass, bike, etc? I think you’ll be lucky to find anywhere that can offer that in your first season.

I remember landing a job in a top finance firm straight out of Uni. It was officially listed as the number 1 Graduate job in the UK at the time, according to The Times. I thought I had it made when I saw the salary they were paying me and immediately dropped my original plan of going to Whistler to be a guide for a year. But by the time I’d paid my rent, travel, council taxes, car & house insurance, food and living costs, I recall having only 200 – 300 quid a month left over for “myself”.

Compare that to working as a guide for a good company. I know that on the pay deals we are now offering this year, even my trainee guys should have at least that much left over per month – before considering tips on top.

What would you rather do? Work in an office cowered over spreadsheets, emails and spouting management and strategy bullsh*t all day – or be out on your bike riding in the best places in the world and meeting new people who share your passion?

I recently made that choice myself believe it or not. After 14 years of working as a guide (and running trailAddiction) each summer – BUT as a Chartered Engineer in the UK on >300 GBP a day, I recently made the choice to jump to full-time “lifestyle” rather than full-time “money”. On balance, so far so good, although bizarrely I still to be spending almost as much time on emails and spreadsheets as I used to! 🙁

“What would you rather do? Work in an office cowered over spreadsheets, emails and spouting management and strategy bullsh*t all day – or be out on your bike riding in the best places in the world and meeting new people who share your passion?”

I’m not unsympathetic to what you’re saying and realize you’re in a cutthroat casualised market BUT even if it’s fun and some people would do it for free, it’s ultimately work. And shouldn’t people who work full time jobs at least make enough money to support themselves at least, let alone a dependent – isn’t that the point of having minimum wage legislation? (BTW would most of the EU countries that didn’t have a formalized minimum wage not have collective bargaining arrangements in place that mean there is a minimum amount of money that anyone employed would make?)

Don’t know anything at all about guiding, never used them, doubt I ever will. But it strikes me that it’s probably an industry where you would need to set up for yourself and trade of your own reputation to get anywhere, and set your own prices(ie don’t join the race to the bottom companies). Just going by this thread, seems clear that’s what the successful ones sound to be doing.

Some resorts are clamping down now, but generally it’s just needed the ability to ride a bike and not get too lost

The moment your hobby becomes a job its no longer carefree or fun. I cycle to destress. If I had to take god-knows who, who could be fast, stupid, rude or nice with the odd badly maintained bike thrown in when I’m tired, not feeling great and not particularly well paid?

No ta.

What next ‘you do it for the love of it’? Maybe if your 18, inbetween College and Uni or a season but not as a serious job. Thats NOT offensive to anyone put how can you put down roots/have a house etc? Especially in the Alps its ££££ if you wanted to buy/stay permanent.