- This topic has 77 replies, 42 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by bamboo.
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100 euros a week for a mtb guide job?
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theguyfromthealpsFree MemberPosted 10 years ago
Hello everyone.
I have sent applications for mountain bike guide jobs over a few years now and I have to say I’m somehow perplexed with how little some companies offer to pay their guides. The rates vary from country to country obviously but within the same country sometimes there are crazy differences in the pay. Some companies offer very reasonable conditions, some get very close to the ridiculous. In one case I was offered 100 euros per week pay plus accommodation and “basic food”. That was for 5 full days guiding. With a pretty successful company.
I haven’t bothered asking what basic food means.
I have to add I am a certified mtb guide, I got my qualification with the Italian mtb guides association, affiliated MIAS – MBLA , so valid internationally. I was also offering fluent Italian, german and Spanish, which helps as a guide.
I understand it is a fun job and an opportunity for passionate riders to spend 3 months riding in great places, but is it right to pay someone less then 20 euros a day for a job with such big responsibility? Are mountain biking holiday companies really doing so badly to justify this? 16 euros a day?
Can anyone spare their opinion on this please?
I’m curious to see if I live out of this world and got it all wrong or if some companies are pushing it a bit too much.
cheers.
eric.footflapsFull MemberPosted 10 years agoWas the 100 Euros with a bike provided or using your own?
I remember seeing climbing jobs where they paid a pittance and expected the guide to provide their own ropes for the clients to trash…
deadlydarcyFree MemberPosted 10 years agoIs there no minimum wage legislation where you want to work?
EDIT: Italy? Seems not.
Maybe try and find some work in France where it’s around €9.50 ish.
cynic-alFree MemberPosted 10 years agoDD I suspect that living costs might meant that minimum wage figure you’ve quoted may not apply?
deadlydarcyFree MemberPosted 10 years agoDD I suspect that living costs might meant that minimum wage figure you’ve quoted may not apply?
Yeah, sorry…possibly hasty answer and talking out of my arse (nothing new there then…) 🙂
jambalayaFree MemberPosted 10 years agoSeems about right, full board and lodging plus probably a bike to ride. The other holiday companies eg ski or summer beach resrorts would be about the same. The €100 is pocket money.
theguyfromthealpsFree MemberPosted 10 years agoI forgot to mention, these were companies run by brits. And no, not in Italy.
footflapsFull MemberPosted 10 years agoPlus you get to keep tips from the clients, which would be > 100 Euros / week if you’re good.
theguyfromthealpsFree MemberPosted 10 years agoWas the 100 Euros with a bike provided or using your own?
No, own bike
legendFree MemberPosted 10 years agoYou don’t do these jobs for the money. Same goes for pretty much any job in the outdoor industry
footflapsFull MemberPosted 10 years agoNo, own bike
Bit tough then. Most companies I’ve been with provide the guide’s bikes for them (and spares etc).
theguyfromthealpsFree MemberPosted 10 years agoYou don’t do these jobs for the money. Same goes for pretty much any job in the outdoor industry
I understand you don’t do this jobs for money, but with a group of 10 people paying 700 euros for a week I find there could be a bit more in for the guides. No?
A part from that, I have enough friends who are ski and mountain bike guides that actually make a good living with it. As I said some companies offer quite good money, I just don’t understand the massive gaps.doug_basqueMTB.comFull MemberPosted 10 years agoI got an application from a guy who was getting a basic pay but the company he was working for charged him for food and accommodation. At the end of the week he had to give them money. It’s wrong. The first time you find yourself on the hill with someone with a broken leg you will know how much of a responsible job it is. I pay my guides properly and I expect them to do a proper job, they don’t mess about, the don’t treat it as a holiday for themselves and they get paid for it. It’s not going to buy them a Ferrari but it is a proper, legal wage.
You get the other side though. I charge 50€ a day for day guiding and every year I get people telling me its too expensive. I had a group of four tell me it was a rip off because they “could get a ski guide for that”, how do you even respond to that?
Lots of other holiday companies pay properly too, having spoken to some of them about it. Like others say its not a job you do for money but similarly there should be a compensation attached to the responsibility, no?
Maybe it’s best for me to keep my mouth shut on things this close to home but its something I feel strongly about.
footflapsFull MemberPosted 10 years agoSki guides charge 350 Euros + a day in France, but then they’re unionised, which ensures they all make a decent living from it.
theguyfromthealpsFree MemberPosted 10 years agoAnd also sorry, I wrote 5 days, but it was 6 days guiding.
theguyfromthealpsFree MemberPosted 10 years agoI got an application from a guy who was getting a basic pay but the company he was working for charged him for food and accommodation. At the end of the week he had to give them money. It’s wrong. The first time you find yourself on the hill with someone with a broken leg you will know how much of a responsible job it is. I pay my guides properly and I expect them to do a proper job, they don’t mess about, the don’t treat it as a holiday for themselves and they get paid for it. It’s not going to buy them a Ferrari but it is a proper, legal wage.
You get the other side though. I charge 50€ a day for day guiding and every year I get people telling me its too expensive. I had a group of four tell me it was a rip off because they “could get a ski guide for that”, how do you even respond to that?
Lots of other holiday companies pay properly too, having spoken to some of them about it. Like others say its not a job you do for money but similarly there should be a compensation attached to the responsibility, no?
Maybe it’s best for me to keep my mouth shut on things this close to home but its something I feel strongly about.
I couldn’t agree more with you. And please don’t get me wrong, I am not after money, I just think it is important to treat this as a proper job.
SandwichFull MemberPosted 10 years agoFrom working in travel, up to 50% of the €700 would be for B&B accommodation, probably up to €50 to €100 for evening meals, €100 for the guide, VAT €60 leaving €90 – €140 gross margin (profit, admin and vehicle expenses to come out of this). The VAT figure based on the HMRC margin scheme.
joeeggFree MemberPosted 10 years agoI was being paid 30 euros a day from a hotel for guiding groups,Southern Spain. No accommodation and own bike.
The owner asked if I could do it cheaper as he wanted to get more bookings.I jacked it in.
rene59Free MemberPosted 10 years agoCan you go freelance and set your own day rates? If you have the qualifications, skills and languages would there not be enough continuity of work to sustain you over a season covering jobs when demand/opportunity arose among all the different guiding companies?
theguyfromthealpsFree MemberPosted 10 years agofootflaps – Member
Bit tough then. Most companies I’ve been with provide the guide’s bikes for them (and spares etc).
I know, 16 euros a day?
simply_oli_yFree MemberPosted 10 years agoIt’s pretty pish IMO! I’ve known some to get good wages. But mainly rubbish.
As an aside, Cynic_Al your meant to be strathpuffering! Get off here!
theguyfromthealpsFree MemberPosted 10 years agoSandwich – Member
From working in travel, up to 50% of the €700 would be for B&B accommodation, probably up to €50 to €100 for evening meals, €100 for the guide, VAT €60 leaving €90 – €140 gross margin (profit, admin and vehicle expenses to come out of this). The VAT figure based on the HMRC margin scheme.Makes sense, sort of. But 100 euros a head a week for food, maybe if you go to the restaurant every day.
But the point is, some companies DO pay at least 200 or 250 a week. So it is possible. All I’m talking about, shouldnt there be some sort of regulations?theguyfromthealpsFree MemberPosted 10 years agorene59 – Member
Can you go freelance and set your own day rates? If you have the qualifications, skills and languages would there not be enough continuity of work to sustain you over a season covering jobs when demand/opportunity arose among all the different guiding companies?Yeah mate, that is my final aim, to have my own little business at some point.
scotroutesFull MemberPosted 10 years agoSurely it’s self-regulating. If the company couldn’t get guides for the amount they are offering then they’d have to pay more. Now, there’s an argument to be made about the quality of guides they’d be able to employ and what effect that might have on their long term business but if they have managed to date, why should they change?
NorthwindFull MemberPosted 10 years agoNot all guides do the same jobs, mind. Like, at A Quick Release, the guides were also helping at dinner, mechanicking for the hire fleet, etc. Long days. At White Room, as far as I saw guiding meant guiding pretty much.
I suppose part of it is some folks will just be “living the dream” and really pretty unfussed about the money, and as long as they’re around, it’ll be possible to pay a lower wage…
avdave2Full MemberPosted 10 years agoI was also offering fluent Italian, german and Spanish
I’d of thought you could get a very well paid job with those skills and live anywhere you wanted for the riding.
PotdogFree MemberPosted 10 years agoI would feel very uncomfortable even considering trying to pay someone I expected to work as a guide for me 100€ a week. Not sure what sort of person you’re going to get who would be willing to work for that sort of money. Maybe those who do offer this are getting good people, but I find it difficult enough to find the right people even when offering what I believe is a proper wage.
alpinFree MemberPosted 10 years agosince 2010 i have worked (on a freelance basis) for a company guiding folks over the Alps.
i have guided over 20 transalp tours;from Germany, across the Alps to one of the Italian lakes (Garda or Como).
2010-2011 i spent 6 months on Gran Canaria guuiding.
the pay in GC was 1000€ net… bike provided, but i ended up using my own on the “freeride” tour as i kept damaging the FS they provided and the chief mechanic kept getting upset. 300€ went on accomodation. the 700e was usually just enough to cover living costs. that was six days riding. i wouldn’t bother with that again. was too knackered by the Sunday that i never had the inclination to go and ride for myself.
the work in the Alps pays well enough, despite using your own bike. for riding Sunday to Friday (with coach transfer back to Germany on the Saturday) i expect to earn around 1000€. a daily allowance of 70€/day saw me coming out with a few €s in my pocket if i ate conservatively and didn’t drink too many beers in the evening (however most restaurants & huts provided me with food on the condition i dragged my guests there; paid for drinks myself). being self-employed means that i can claim on my hotel expenses, too, which is nice come tax return time.
alongside the guiding i also live in the back of a van for several weeks during the summer ferrying luggage between hotels.
it is, IMO, much more easy going – almost a paid mini-holiday. no guests to deal with for a start(!!!!!), cruising along mountains roads, enjoying a coffee at the roadside, watching the sun rise/set whilst parked up high on a mountainside. when it rains i can sit in the van and read a book. if i fancy it i can go and ride once my van is empty of luggage. usually finished by 12, or 3 at the latest and sometimes as early as 10 depending on the tour, which means i can get a good four-seven hours of riding in on trails that i wouldn’t want to ride with 6-12 “tourists”.
day rate is lower, but allowance is still provided. sleeping/eating/living in the van means my costs are next to nothing (biggest cost is usually either a slap-up meal somewhere or the gondola ticket). for driving ~1000km from Monday to Friday and including my allowance i ironically earn more than i would guiding (when guiding i have to spend my allowance in the specified hotels (most of which are good, quality places)). somewhere around 1100€.
it’s alright.
suppose i should add that being self-employed means that the rate i am paid is different to those that are on the books proper. oddly it is higher and i can claim back all my outgoings. another big plus is that the Germany taxman sees my bike as an Arbeitsgerät, or tool, so i can claim any bike costs (within reason). i also have to pay for my own outdoor liability insurance.
16/20€ a day is a proper piss take.
as others said earlier, you’ve a lot of responsibility as a guide. ultimately it is not a job you do for the money, but there should be enough of a financial reward that you can live from it.
personally i wouldn’t do it for less than 120€/day.
woolFull MemberPosted 10 years agoWhat’s the difference between ski guiding and MTB guiding I can’t see any. Happy to pay to have quality day rather than scratching around for good routes.
footflapsFull MemberPosted 10 years agoWhat’s the difference between ski guiding and MTB guiding I can’t see any.
Restricted market in some countries e.g. France, which keeps the wages up. Someone was telling me that ESF is run as a cooperative and they elect a leader each season to set the rules etc…
jfletchFree MemberPosted 10 years agoWhat’s the difference between ski guiding and MTB guiding I can’t see any.
Qualifications?
I’m not sure what you need to be an MTB guide but to be a ski guide you need to be a fully qualified mountain guide which involves a lot of climbing at a very high level and takes years and €€€ to get, the skiing is only a small part of the qualification.
Do you need this to be an MTB guide or can “anyone” do it?
My assumption would be not since the ski guide qualification is only legally required to guide in glaciated terrain and we aren’t cycling in that! MTB guiding isn’t trivial but you don’t need technical climbing skills, avalanche awareness or other winter skills, the only overlap is navigation and first aid.
That’s not to say you shouldn’t get paid to but MTB guides appear to be in a similar situation to trainee ski instructors where there is a low barrier to entry and people willing to do it for very little because of the lifestyle it affords.
konabunnyFree MemberPosted 10 years agoSurely it’s self-regulating
I have no actual knowledge but I’d be surprised if there weren’t a minimum wage law that covers this type of employment and had considered all sorts of dodgy deductions (for accommodation, tools etc) a million times before.
scotroutesFull MemberPosted 10 years agoSuggestion above is that there isn’t a minimum wage in force in some areas. I’d probably argue that there should be – who wants to be guided and potentially rescued by the cheapest person available?
winterfold96Free MemberPosted 10 years agoJust for a bit of balance, I worked as as guide/mechanic in the French alps last summer for similar money, and to be honest, if your food / lift pass / accommodation is taken care of for you, then you’ll almost certainly pocket all the money you earn as your costs are zero ( I came back from 14 weeks with £1k in my pocket).
If you’re guiding, almost all groups are fairly affluent, middle aged men, and a tip of about 50 euros a week plus a few beers is more than likely.
polyFree MemberPosted 10 years agoNot all EU countries have minimum wages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_minimum_wage
Those that do will probably allow deductions for accom etc from the cost, and bearing in mind that youth unemployment (and guiding is a market that younger people can feasibly do) is very high in many southern european countries at the moment you will have a bit of a “race to the bottom”.
I have sent applications for mountain bike guide jobs over a few years now and I have to say I’m somehow perplexed with how little some companies offer to pay their guides. The rates vary from country to country obviously but within the same country sometimes there are crazy differences in the pay. Some companies offer very reasonable conditions, some get very close to the ridiculous. In one case I was offered 100 euros per week pay plus accommodation and “basic food”.
So this is ONE company… …but if you are applying then presumably their are posts around at rates you would take… You could probably apply this sort of discussion to almost any job where the rates aren’t fixed as part of a state monopoly and/or controlled by unions.
alpinFree MemberPosted 10 years agothinking about it… think it was nearer 900-1000 for driving and 1000-1100 for guiding…
the first year the rates were a bit lower. it went up according to how much experience/years of service you had built up.
always lots of new faces at the yearly guide-treff. that’s because of the high turnover, i guess…
jonahtontoFree MemberPosted 10 years agoim jealous. you’re not knee deep in welsh mud for less than minimum wage like i am doing price work in this weather where i can’t get anything done. did i hear you say lift pass?
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