http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building en-US Wed, 30 May 2012 01:17:25 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://singletrackworld.com/forum/search.php http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1344602 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:21:32 +0000 freeridenick 1344602@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I know all this and think the Hurtwood do a good job - and have worked on trail days on BKB.</p> <p>I was being more general of the whole area. You don&#39;t just ride on the Hurtwood do you.</p> <p>PS the best ending to BKB is a footpath! </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1344561 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:07:56 +0000 njee20 1344561@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>And as a complete aside, I can do a very decent loop with absolutely no footpaths in it anyway, I wouldn&#39;t say that &#39;much of the best stuff&#39; is footpaths. Perhaps more so on the North Downs, but not the Surrey Hills. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1344387 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:20:41 +0000 scu98rkr 1344387@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Freeride Nick what the others are trying to say is the landowner in the hurtwood is happy for you to ride on his land this includes in this area footpaths so its not a civil offense in the hurtwood.</p> <p>Footpaths are a ROW and are not the same as pavements. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1344358 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:10:39 +0000 mk1fan 1344358@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I wasn&#39;t only talking about the land.</p> <p>theotherjon sums it up nicely. If you don&#39;t like the trails at Hurtwood then you have two options.</p> <p>1. Don&#39;t ride there.<br /> 2. Join the group, put the work in and push for different trails. Although, accept that the owners maynot wish for your type of trails to be built on their land. In which case revert to 1. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1344063 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:35:22 +0000 freeridenick 1344063@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>OK - maybe a civil wrong. </p> <p>&quot;from Wikipedia<br /> Right of ways and open access across land typically only extend to walking. So you don&#39;t have a right to cycle or ride a horse on a public footpath. However, it is not a criminal offence to do so, unless there is a traffic order or bylaw in place specifically. A land owner may pursue you for damages under trespass Law or obtain a court order Injunction banning you from riding on their land, if you persisted.</p> <p>It is a civil wrong to ride a bicycle or a horse on a public footpath, and action could be taken by the landowner for trespass or nuisance by the user.[1]&quot;</p> <p>All I am trying to point out is much of what we do is basically selfish. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1344030 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:15:56 +0000 freeridenick 1344030@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>What, of course its illegal - otherwise why have a definition of a footpath! just like cycling on the pavement </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1344001 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:00:53 +0000 theotherjonv 1344001@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I&#39;m talking more specifically about areas under the Hurtwood Control here, so Winterfold / Redlands is possibly more as you say. I don&#39;t specifically know who the landowners of these areas are, or what their attitude is.</p> <p>But within the Hurtwood, as long as you&#39;re following the rules / code of conduct then the landowner is to a greater or lesser extent OK with it. Any conflict is being caused by bad behaviour, by building new trails, or (as here) &#39;modifying&#39; the existing trail network in a way that the landowner is not OK with</p> <p>To the other point: <u>Riding footpaths is not illegal.</u></p> <p>A footpath is an right of way for foot passengers over land. Whether the landowner likes it or not. If he is also happy for bikes to be ridden over those footpaths, it&#39;s his land, what law&#39;s being broken? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1343995 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 07:53:05 +0000 freeridenick 1343995@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>But is the owner happy - probably not it most cases...ie stuff on redlands, winterfold, leith, ranmore etc goes through stages of being blocked off<br /> and riding footpaths is illegal - much of the best stuff is footpath, hence we ride footpaths alot. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1343970 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 07:32:19 +0000 theotherjonv 1343970@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>90% of trails are illegal.</blockquote></p> <p>Why? 90% of trails might not be bridleways but they&#39;re not illegal. They&#39;re private property, yes, but if the owner is happy to allow you to ride on them within certain requirements - like don&#39;t dig fresh ones, don&#39;t build jumps, don&#39;t scare the horses - then what law is being broken?</p> <p>Or to illustrate by hyperbole. If my friend brings his bike around my house and rides it in my garden, with my permission, following my rules (don&#39;t run over the cat, stay off the vegetable patch, don&#39;t swear at the wife) what law is he breaking? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1343944 Thu, 22 Apr 2010 07:06:17 +0000 freeridenick 1343944@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Inherently being a mountain biker in the surrey hills we are all disrespecting property everytime we ride (unless you only use Bridleways?) 90% of trails are illegal - its just a fact of life. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1343791 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:17:53 +0000 mk1fan 1343791@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>It&#39;s almost like trying to control fell running!</blockquote></p> <p>Fell running doesn&#39;t usually envolve digging into the ground and forming structures on/out of it.</p> <p>Putting an alternative view on it. How would you feel about someone turning up and building jumps or drops in your garden? Or deciding to park on your drive because you&#39;re close to where they want to be?</p> <p>Seems to be a lot of disrespect for people&#39;s property being expressed. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1343759 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:03:47 +0000 Ewan 1343759@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>You can confiscate their bikes, that&#39;s quite a good disincentive! Is it not attitude like that that causes the problems in the first place? </blockquote></p> <p>Pretty certain you can&#39;t! The police can, but that&#39;d be about it. The land owner or their agent could ask you to leave and you&#39;d be obliged to do so by the quickest route, but other than that they wouldn&#39;t be able to &#39;do&#39; anything.</p> <p>Certainly if they took your bike that&#39;d be robbery, which is a pretty serious crime (not the same as theft). If you put up a struggle (as would be your right as they&#39;d be acting illegally) then you can add assault to that as well.</p> <p>Obviously the above would in all likelyhood never happen, but lets not spread false rumours eh? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1342302 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:36:41 +0000 glenp 1342302@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Its all very well thinking that you would never sue the land owner, but if you do find yourself with serious life-long injury and a family to support your attitude would soon shift from &quot;sueing&quot; to &quot;claiming on their insurance&quot;, because you&#39;d have very little choice.</p> <p>Totally agree about the behavior thing jools. Attitude is everything and regular folk assume a certain attitude exists when they see (for example) body armour and brash clothes and super massive dh bike. I have enough trouble persuading people that I have known all my life that I ride in a discreet and polite manner, and I&#39;ve lived here 45 years, am grey-haired and dress pretty discreetly. If I have trouble convincing them what chance does anyone with a more &quot;different&quot; image have? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1342281 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:29:07 +0000 njee20 1342281@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>can you really stop people who are intent on riding trails from doing so </blockquote></p> <p>You can confiscate their bikes, that&#39;s quite a good disincentive! Is it not attitude like that that causes the problems in the first place? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1342242 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:19:15 +0000 Sui 1342242@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>can you really stop people who are intent on riding trails from doing so - private land or not..???? no serious. Hurtwood are great, they came to realise that biking was here to stay so joined in and said lets make it work together. Other &quot;land owners (council FC)&quot; are knobs who want money for the privilage. Hurtwood know there&#39;s miles upon miles of unsanctioned stuff, but it remains realitvely hidden so is no massive concern. Tilgate, Rogate, even the place that&#39;s not really there in Kent would never normally be an issue accept for HSE. It&#39;s almost like trying to control fell running! </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1342234 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:17:28 +0000 joolsburger 1342234@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>It&#39;s a worry though Glen. Used to be that when there were fewer people out on MTB&#39;s there seemed to be less complaints (obviously) now though as the sport grows it is in danger of becoming a victim of it&#39;s own success. </p> <p>The Hurtwood is a great spot for sure but increasingly we have to view it as more like a trail centre than not with all the associated baggage that carries. </p> <p>Unsanctioned building is annoying and thoughtless but I maintain it&#39;s the lack of courtesy and thoughtfulness especially to local people with kids and dogs etc that causes the real harm to the image of MTB. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1342180 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:59:14 +0000 glenp 1342180@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>Can&#39;t have us hareing round the countryside scaring the redsocks and running over puppies eh! </blockquote>Of course we could always NOT hare around scaring people and then this situation wouldn&#39;t arise in the first place (not picking on you jools, you just put it so well). </p> <p>The Hurtwood is special in so much as it is all privately owned. They could opt for a scheme like that - as far as I know they aren&#39;t considering it at the moment, but when the best known cooperative project on the Hurtwood gets vandalised by people who think that someone else&#39;s land should be hacked about to suit only them then a situation is being created where it may become more likely.</p> <p>Even with permit schemes I&#39;m pretty sure you would still have a right to use the existing bridleways. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/7#post-1342141 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:47:02 +0000 woodsman 1342141@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>HH, I don&#39;t have that sort of info. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/6#post-1342125 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:43:33 +0000 HoratioHufnagel 1342125@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>so will we eventually need a seperate permit for each area we ride in, or will one permit be for everything? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bkb-on-holmbury-trail-building/page/6#post-1342124 Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:43:12 +0000 joolsburger 1342124@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I worry that sooner or later it will be MTB&#39;s in sanctioned places only with significant fees to attend. Can&#39;t have us hareing round the countryside scaring the redsocks and running over puppies eh! </p>