wors en-US Wed, 30 May 2012 01:12:38 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://singletrackworld.com/forum/search.php http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers/page/2#post-2065842 Sat, 04 Dec 2010 11:27:12 +0000 coffeeking 2065842@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>B&amp;Q, cheapest possible pipe lagging is closed cell polyurethane foam. Closed cell, it's fully waterpoof (except for the split of course!). The only reason I can see for non-waterproof lagging being a problem is if it soaks up water and then the evapouration with wind makes it susceptible to windchill effects, thus cooling the pipe more. But with a foam that has closed cells there's nowhere for the water to sit (other than the surface, which is the same with all lagging) and so it can't alter the heat conduction in any way, and doesn't require painting.</p> <p>Can someone explain to me why a closed cell polyurethane foam is not waterproof? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers/page/2#post-2065638 Sat, 04 Dec 2010 09:46:00 +0000 Bear 2065638@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>no standard pipe lagging is not waterproof, you can waterproof it by painting it with hammerite or similar.</p> <p>You can buy waterproof pipe insulation, however when I enquired I couldn't just buy a few lengths at a time, had to buy a box of several hundred metres which which I would never use up. Also I was quoted I think nearly a £1000 for a box! No wonder most people don't bother, but there is a solution to doing it the correct way as I said. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers/page/2#post-2065393 Sat, 04 Dec 2010 00:28:53 +0000 Trekster 2065393@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><a href="http://www.first-traceheating.co.uk/ranges_trace.asp">Trace heating</a><br /> <blockquote>jamesy01 - Member<br /> If the problem persists and is an inconvenience to rectify you could invest in a trace heating element. A small filament of wire is inserted in the pipe and when the temperature drops below s predetermined level the wire heats up preventing a frozen pipe.</p> <p></blockquote> </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers/page/2#post-2065232 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 23:32:03 +0000 samuri 2065232@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I wrote a letter to British Gas. HTH.</p> <p><em><br /> When British Gas installed our boiler at far greater expense than a local engineer would have charged, I assumed I would be receiving a much higher quality of service. Unfortunately I was mistaken. Last winter (the first winter the boiler was used), the boiler broke down right at the coldest time of the year. I contacted British Gas and since I was and have been a Homecare customer for many years, I assumed I would get a rapid response. After all, I could have got a local engineer round for a fraction of the cost who would have fixed the problem quickly. Again, this was a rash assumption. </p> <p>After 3 days of no hot water or heating, a British gas engineer turned up, pronounced the installation as one 'done by cowboys', got his hacksaw out and sawed right through the condensation pipe, which fixed the problem. Took him all of five minutes.<br /> Later on (after the weather had warmed up) another engineer turned and reconnected the pipe. </p> <p>What do you think happened this winter? Yep. Exactly the same thing. Faced with the possibility of another 3 days without hot water or heating (if I was lucky), I took matters into my own hands and resolved the issue myself, I do after all, have a hacksaw of my own. </p> <p>The matter still remains though. The installation is clearly substandard if it breaks everytime we have a cold spell. It is time for British Gas to resolve the issue permanently. Please explain how and when you intend to do this. I will not accept someone turning up to reconnect the pipe. This is a design flaw which needs a bit more intelligence applying to it. </em></p> <p>I'm not expecting British Gas to get back in touch myself. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2065221 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 23:28:59 +0000 allthepies 2065221@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>You'd think that an appliance which is designed to heat water could have a winter mode which would provide a small amount of heat energy directed to the condensate outlet to stop freezing. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2065207 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 23:25:09 +0000 coffeeking 2065207@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Most pipe lagging I've seen is closed-cell foam and waterproof? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2065196 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 23:22:46 +0000 bangin on 2065196@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>+1 Bear<br /> only lag the pipe if you can make it totally waterproof, or it'll freeze up and you'll not be able to thaw it. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2064977 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 22:27:36 +0000 Bear 2064977@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>pipe lagging outside may make the problem worse as it is not waterproof. I suspect that in the instructions it tells you how to run your condense externally. Usually it is one pipe size larger, ie 32mm waste pipe. However the condensate should still discharge to a suitable location, ie drain, soil pipe, or specific condensate soakaway located correctly. always best to discharge into the internal plumbing system if possible, but boiler locations are not always as accomomdating as that! </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2064486 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 20:24:16 +0000 jamesy01 2064486@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>If the problem persists and is an inconvenience to rectify you could invest in a trace heating element. A small filament of wire is inserted in the pipe and when the temperature drops below s predetermined level the wire heats up preventing a frozen pipe.<br /> As a side issue you also get trace heating for gutters as a few insurers are getting pissed of paying out for roof repairs every year when your gutters ice up! </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2064306 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:27:57 +0000 coffeeking 2064306@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>It always used to be that the condensate had to go into an internal trapped drain; has that changed? </blockquote></p> <p>Don't know if it's ever been "forced" but it would make sense. However the manual for my boiler doesn't suggest it as necessary. Lagging it is though! </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2064233 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:08:06 +0000 Ming the Merciless 2064233@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Our condensate has a drain plug, when it drops below freezing for any length of time I simply remove the plug and put an old sauce pan under it. Simples. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2064179 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 18:50:05 +0000 chickenman 2064179@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>It always used to be that the condensate had to go into an internal trapped drain; has that changed? If the condensate can't get out it can cause fan failure on boilers where the motor windings are in the combustion chamber. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2063930 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:29:03 +0000 coffeeking 2063930@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>Why oh why are they so badly designed? Boiler broke down yesterday, Gas man comes out, pours hot water on the outside pipe, hey presto it works again. 11pm last night, more ominous noises, packs up again. Now they can't come out until tomorrow. I would attempt unfreezing the pipe myself, however, the iced part is up at the first floor, out of my reach!</blockquote></p> <p>They're not badly designed, they're poorly installed. The condensate drain should be at quite an angle to allow it to drain away quick, and should be lagged properly so it doesn't freeze. Whoever installed it forgot some part of the above, as mine did, I've now got it detached and emptying into a bucket. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2063922 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:26:26 +0000 supersessions9-2 2063922@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>same thing on monday morning. Called a plumber friend who installed boiler who told me what to do. Mine runs out into a larger downpipe into a gutter for a conservatory. The gutter froze up preventing the downpipe from running out which froze right back to the boiler. Hot water and dropping the down pipe off and it's been fine since. </p> <p>Plumber said he's had loads of them since cold spell started. Didn't have problem in jan/feb coldspell though. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2063903 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 17:18:15 +0000 scotabroad 2063903@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Our boiler condensate pipe is routed to the drain internally as well thus eliminating the problem. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2063635 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:08:03 +0000 franksinatra 2063635@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Same problem here but the whole pipe was frozen, about 2m of it in the garage to outside wall. Took the whole thing off (save the down pipe from the boiler) and now draining into a bucket (the first bucket shattered when I moved it because it was so cold)</p> <p>Good advice on the Wolseley website, saved me an expensive call out. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2063607 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:01:00 +0000 Roscoemck 2063607@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Thanks again guys. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2063331 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 14:57:37 +0000 pushbikerider 2063331@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Yup same thing happened here, as daveh says if you're in an emergency then just cut the pipe off internally and catch it in a bucket.</p> <p>For a permanent fix get the pipe redone without the horizontal section and get it lagged too. </p> <p>Worcester boilers recommend going up a pipe size to 30mm from the more normal 20mm, although that'll need the hole in the wall opening out too... </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2063188 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 14:11:50 +0000 daveh 2063188@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Our boiler saves up the condensate then periodically dumps it so there's less chance of it icing up and blocking over time. I don't know whether all boilers do this. In your circumstances (in need of a quick fix now) I'd just disconnect the condensate pipework near the boiler and put a bucket under it, emptying periodically of course. I wouldn't be up a ladder trying to fix stuff in this weather, it can wait until summer. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/condenser-boilers#post-2063164 Fri, 03 Dec 2010 14:05:11 +0000 teagirl 2063164@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Mines doing it too, keep getting error, pour hot water on outside pipe and all's well. My plumber visited yesterday and said I was the 4th customer that day with same problem. Fortunately mine's accessible and vertical. </p>