drac en-US Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:47:38 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://singletrackworld.com/forum/search.php http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2055469 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 12:14:53 +0000 ivantate 2055469@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>TBH, the 3 of them are all good cars, well designed and you are unlucky to have a problem. Nothing on the forum will help you decide 1 or the other other than warn you about the service schedules and costs. Fiat Bravo? meant to be a good car and I should imagine the price will be very good with the usual depreciation. Also Megane? same as above really and if buying from a dealer the warranty should give you some confidence!</p> <p>Smaller engines working harder is the way forward unfortunately, hence alot of 1.4 petrol turbos and 1.6 diesel turbos in some big and heavy cars. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2055338 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 11:45:58 +0000 boblo 2055338@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>jim_1980 - Member<br /> How often does this DPF regeneration need to happen?<br /> </blockquote></p> <p>The car, apprently, works it out via the ECU. It's supposed to depend on variables such as heat, driving style, engine on time (i.e. journey length). Not sure if all this is true but the ECU will decide and it's all a non event to the driver.</p> <p>As stated above, the cycle can be interupted (e.g. engine off) and if this happens too many times, the DPF doesn't regen and becomes clogged. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054857 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:56:49 +0000 tonyg2003 2054857@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>You sometimes you see cars regenerating on the motorway - bit of a plume of smoke. How often depends on how the car is driven.</p> <p>Of the cars the OP mentions Honda doesn't have a DPF (until '10), dodgy dual mass flywheel etc... and hence probably the least complicated. I had a manifold crack on my old Accord 2.2cdti (lots did) but I don't think the Civic has this. According to the reliability surveys it will be the most reliable of the Civic/Focus/Golf.</p> <p>I completely agree with the other posters. Diesels for big trips (motorways), petrols for local commuters. My diesel is an '08 without DPF, dual mass flywheel etc....N/A petrol second car for local trips. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054832 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:48:34 +0000 jim_1980 2054832@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>How often does this DPF regeneration need to happen? </p> <p>And feel free to continue to post what the cars are like if you own one. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054796 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:41:56 +0000 hora 2054796@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Italian motorway-tune will sort the DPF out. </p> <p>i.e 4th gear at a steady circa 80mph for 4 or 5 junctions. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054775 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:37:53 +0000 SprocketJockey 2054775@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><em>To avoid early DPF death, the received wisdon is to rev the bollix off it every now and then and get the whole thing nice and hot. The days of tootling around in top gear like a mini cab driver are over. You need to get it hot and rev it to keep the DPF alive. Might knacker the rest of the engine mind....</em></p> <p>Steady revs in a lower gear is actually the advice now... we've had some problems with the DPF in our recently bought Octavia Scout. Actually needed a replacement which was thankfully covered under warranty.</p> <p>Most manufacturers and roadside assistance outfits are now advising that the optimum is to run the car at 50mph in 4th or 5th for 10 minutes or so (steady revs) to regenerate the DPF - completely ragging it in between short journeys is apparently not a good thing for DPF life.</p> <p>Oh and the DPF warning can come on on longer motorway journeys too if the regen cycle is interrupted (eg if you hit a bad patch of traffic). There is also a theory that extended running in 6th gear doesn't get the engine into the optimum temperature range to regen.</p> <p>I knew none of this before buying a DPF equipped car, so buyer beware and all that... none of it's a particular problem, but you may need to adapt your driving style as mentioned above. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054755 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:32:26 +0000 hora 2054755@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Or an MX5 </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054729 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:24:29 +0000 CaptainMainwaring 2054729@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>If you are only doing 10K per annum you should seriously consider going petrol rather than diesel, especially if you do mostly short journeys. There is this myth that diesel cars are always cheaper but they are not. </p> <p>1) Diesel is more expensive than petrol<br /> 2) Diesel cars cost more to buy<br /> 3) Diesels have bigger long term bills - dual mass fly wheels, DPF's etc<br /> 4) Diesel engines are much more thermally efficient than petrols so take much longer to warm up. For short journeys they will never reach full temp, so give very poor consumption figures and will wear much faster</p> <p>For 10k miles a year I would go for a MK VI Golf petrol one year old </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054641 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:03:10 +0000 boblo 2054641@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>chiefgrooveguru - Member<br /> &lt;snip&gt; If that 10k/yr is made up mostly of infrequent long journeys though, you'll be fine.</blockquote></p> <p>....But keep a couple of £k in the bank in case of horendous unforseen garage bills... </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054631 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:00:48 +0000 chiefgrooveguru 2054631@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>If most of your mileage is short trips, don't get a modern diesel. If that 10k/yr is made up mostly of infrequent long journeys though, you'll be fine. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054625 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 08:59:22 +0000 hora 2054625@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I've driven two of the above choices.</p> <p>The Civic is a great car but the steering is ridiculously electric. You are used to a Puma so you'll like good steering I bet. Plus it has different styling but the dash just looks bloody odd- too bizarre for my taste. An acre of plastic in a big salad-bowl shape. No. </p> <p>I drove a MkVI Golf TDI to London. I'd chose that. Partly due to resale but also it just 'feels' a quality car.</p> <p>One of the reasons I didn't buy a Focus recently was the poor dealer warranty offered on a 57plate Focus. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054615 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 08:54:59 +0000 Anthonyl84 2054615@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Had a Civic, very good indeed. Phenomenal engine plus there are fixed price servicing deals around from Honda dealers. DEalers are all excellent, the internal space is quite something. I've had two bike bags and kit for a week in Morocco in the back of mine.</p> <p>Got an A3 now, typical VAG quality and stuff, marginally better mpg probably but not as big in the back. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054586 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 08:44:36 +0000 boblo 2054586@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Diesel Particulate Filter, another gizmo to meet the Euro emissions standard. It captures sooty particles and periodicaly burns them off. If your driving style or journey type (i.e. lots of short ones) stops the car reaching the temps it needs to achieve 'regeneration' (that's what they call it) or you regularly stop the process part way through, you can significantly shorten the DPF's life. With the Ford, there's no way of knowing this is going on until the engine warning light illuminates with a kerching £££.....</p> <p>The Ford DPF gets topped up with 'magic juice' (Eolys IIRC) at 37k and is scheduled for replacement at 75k. </p> <p>To avoid early DPF death, the received wisdon is to rev the bollix off it every now and then and get the whole thing nice and hot. The days of tootling around in top gear like a mini cab driver are over. You need to get it hot and rev it to keep the DPF alive. Might knacker the rest of the engine mind....</p> <p>At 10k p/a, if it were my money I'd either buy an older technolgy diesel that doesn't have turbo, EGR, DPF, DMF or a petrol. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2054564 Wed, 01 Dec 2010 08:32:03 +0000 jim_1980 2054564@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Whats this DPF all about?</p> <p>Probably not going to be doing much more than 10k a year. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2052803 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 17:14:58 +0000 boblo 2052803@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>@steveh. Yeah people keep telling me that along with how 'unlucky' I've been. But if I'd paid up without complaint, I'd be nearly £2k down on what was then less than a 4 year old car. A car that's been pretty much cherished by Mrs Boblo and fully looked after by the main dealer in accordance with Fraud's instructions.</p> <p>Buying diesel now dunt necessarily mean lower maintenance as it used to and they certainly aren't cheaper than petrol if you have to factor in all these extra costs. You'd need to be doing 100's k's p/a to make it pay so bear that in mind if you're only doing 15k or so. You could get a very nasty shock. </p> <p>I'm more likely to be buying something with a 1.8 petrol engine in it (and no fancy emission bits n bobs if I have a choice) when this diesel donkey is up for change. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2052664 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:39:37 +0000 steveh 2052664@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Boblo - All the issues you mention with that focus are common with any modern diesel engine. They all get through clutches/flywheels and egr valves block up with soot over time.</p> <p>DPF - Not having a dpf is even more important on cars that are used for shorter journeys. The filter catches unburnt hydrocarbons at start up and while the engine is cold then burns them off later in journeys when the engines hot. If you only do short journeys this burn off never happens and they get blocked. As Boblo advises you'd do well to avoid one if you can, they're pretty much standard on new cars now to get them through the euro5 emission regulations and have become more common over the last couple of years. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2052632 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:32:37 +0000 boblo 2052632@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Sorry for the repetition... I have a 56 2.0TDCI Focus. It's the Zetec Climate so has a reasonable amount of kit and is very comfortable even on long journeys. I've done quite a few Cambs to north of Scotland (and the return) without stopping en route this year and haven;t been knackered/deafened/put off. It also does around 55mpg which for a pretty perky motah isn't bad.</p> <p>The downside? We've had it from new and don't rag our cars. In the past 10k it's had clutch, DMF, EGR and alternator. I haven't had these bits replaced on any other of my cars, some taken to 150k. Apparently, the clutch/DMF breakdown is a known issue.</p> <p>Lastly, whatever you go for, beware of the DPF 'trap'. On the Focus it involves a scheduled DPF change at 75k and £700 of your English pounds. A lot of people get rid just before it's due and offload the cost to someone else. Can't comment on VAG's on Hondas but if you go for a Focus, get one without a DPF as they are/were an option on the 2.0TDCI. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2052582 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:19:44 +0000 skiboy 2052582@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>We've got a 51 tdi golf which we have had from new , nine coming on 10 years and 110,000 miles on it has never failed to start , never broken down and is hardly ever washed and shows no sign of rust or rot, my wife learned to drive in America and drives it like she's stolen it so it must be tough , </p> <p>Buy one if you can , forget the rest </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2052542 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:14:50 +0000 -m- 2052542@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>There have been some monster (even by Ford standards!) discounts around recently on new Focus - this may be pre-emptive clearing of the decks prior to the new model coming out next year.</p> <p>In some cases the difference between the forecourt price of 1-2 year old cars and new prices via brokers has been trivial (or even negative in one case that I saw...) </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2052506 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:06:22 +0000 Drac 2052506@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Ford and cheap aren't 2 words that go together for new. </p> <p>I get 58mpg average with mine with ease. Coming back from west coast of scotland loaded up with family and all the holiday gear in crap traffic I got 61mpg. Plenty of room to get a bike in my CX fits in with wheels on. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2052456 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:54:05 +0000 xiphon 2052456@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Golf for me, as it's a good old reliable VAG! </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2052438 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:49:07 +0000 spooky_b329 2052438@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>As Funkydunc...we went shopping for a Focus, ended up buying a Mondeo for less money, in better nick, with lots more toys. Subsequently sold it a year later as it was too big, but went for a Fusion which is essentially the C Max version of the Fiesta. Surprisingly practical for bikes with its estate style boot. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2052404 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:42:41 +0000 djaustin 2052404@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Focus for the drive, Honda for the internal bike storage and engine, Golf for the residuals, you choose. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2051946 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:57:46 +0000 Surf-Mat 2051946@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Focus - cheap, handles well, interior dodgy, image great<br /> Civic - interesting shape, great (manual) gearbox, cr4p rear vision, can eat clutches<br /> Golf - decent image (if important), handle well, interior better than mk5, bit samey but it would be my choice. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2051900 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:50:54 +0000 jim_1980 2051900@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Cheers for the comments so far. Keep em coming. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2051783 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:30:58 +0000 sharkbait 2051783@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>We have an '07 Golf GT TDi (130bhp Mk V) which we bought off a mate with 78k on the clock ( one of his female sales staff so mostly motorway miles) to replace a Volvo v70 T5 which was becoming too expensive for the school run.<br /> The Golf has been fantastic in the 12 months we've had it. It's done about 87k now and feels like new. Done nothing to it apart from the cam belt/water pump and a set of brake pads. Plenty fast enough...... and the V70 had 250bhp! Economy has averages 45mpg over the last 12 months on mostly short country lane trips. If I use it for a long trip it will do about 50-52mpg and I don't drive particularly economically.<br /> I've done a couple of 6hr trips in it and have never thought it was loud, noisy or unconfortable. Handling is quite go-kartish without being to harsh. Very glad I bought it.<br /> Others will probably say VW are over priced/rated but seeing as I 'only' paid £6k for it I think I've done alright. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2051782 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:30:43 +0000 FunkyDunc 2051782@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I wouldnt buy a Focus again, the Mondeo is bigger, better equiped, drives better, does the same mpg, cost the same second hand if not a bit less. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2051761 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:27:56 +0000 jwr 2051761@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I have a 2.2 Civic. On the whole I'm very pleased with it. I think the VW gets slightly better MPG though. If you test drive a Civic give it some welly in 4th gear to make sure the clutch doesn't slip. There were a whole bunch of them sold with dodgy clutches.</p> <p>-j </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2051758 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:27:42 +0000 fotorat 2051758@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I have a dark blue Golf GT TDI 115bhp, 5 door, 2001 Y reg, 129K miles, 12 mths MOT, 17" alloys with 235 tires. £2500 ono </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2051739 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:23:41 +0000 Drac 2051739@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I have a Mk VI Golf GT it's bloody excellent car, drives and handles well lots of ooomph and crazt MPG.</p> <p>I've driven a Focus Estate as work new shape, nice enough car but poorer quality inside and general build and a bit less power. </p> <p>Never tried a Civic but sat in one at open day for the lease company we use a few month back and it was like a Fisher Price car inside. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/second-hand-ford-focus-20-tdci-honda-civic-22-i-ctdi-or-golf-20-tdi#post-2051715 Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:20:49 +0000 jim_1980 2051715@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Am on the look out for a second hand car. Ive done some searching about and the following 3 cars seem to get good second hand write ups.</p> <p>Ford Focus (current shape) 2.0 TDCI<br /> Honda Civic (current shape) 2.2 I-CTDI<br /> VW Golf (current shape) 2.0 TDI</p> <p>Currently have a Ford Puma so want to upgrade to something bigger, more comfy, with 5 doors that can fit a bike in the back.</p> <p>Anyone own any of the above cars? if so what are they like to drive and build quality etc </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mtfu-not-always-a-good-idea#post-1847641 Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:52:15 +0000 SkillWill 1847641@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I had exactly the same thing. Mine got worse and worse and eventually I got cellulitis in my ankle. Went back at that point and they told me it was broken. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mtfu-not-always-a-good-idea#post-1847612 Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:45:31 +0000 missingfrontallobe 1847612@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>bjj.andy.w - Member<br /> Don't worry,the wifes got lots of jobs for me to do "While I'm sat at home doing nothing"<br /> </blockquote></p> <p>I've been off sick for 10 months, and am returning to work next week, it has only been the last 3 weeks where any of wifeys little jobs got done lol!!! But then I've had a bit more going on than a broken ankle. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mtfu-not-always-a-good-idea#post-1847382 Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:26:24 +0000 bassspine 1847382@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>wouldn't they put an SPD cleat on the bottom of the cast? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mtfu-not-always-a-good-idea#post-1847381 Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:26:22 +0000 Stoatsbrother 1847381@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Doc speaking</p> <p>That's not necessarily bad news. Providing you have only broken one side, you may actually do better and recover closer to 100% than if you had a bad sprain. I know which I'd choose. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mtfu-not-always-a-good-idea#post-1847373 Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:23:57 +0000 bjj.andy.w 1847373@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Don't worry,the wifes got lots of jobs for me to do "While I'm sat at home doing nothing" <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif" title=":roll:" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mtfu-not-always-a-good-idea#post-1847332 Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:14:03 +0000 steve_b77 1847332@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>MTFU and get one with it he hee </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mtfu-not-always-a-good-idea#post-1847316 Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:07:10 +0000 bjj.andy.w 1847316@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Went over on my ankle two and a half weeks ago at martial arts.I could put some weight on it so i thought it was just badly sprained.Did the usual rest,ice,compression and elivation.Been at work for the last two weeks hobbling around with the ankle not getting any better.The other half made me go to the docs on monday who sent me to the hospital for an x-ray.It was broken <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_eek.gif" title="8O" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> .So I have now got six weeks in plaster with no work (Thankfully on full pay),no martial arts,no gym and worst of all no biking :(. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/now-the-fire-service-personnel-are-due-to-strike/page/3#post-1737563 Tue, 24 Aug 2010 06:44:45 +0000 Woody 1737563@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Bazz wrote<blockquote>the private company suppling the contingency fire cover actually own our fire engines, in London we no longer own our uniforms, appliances or most of our equipment,</blockquote> Equipment I can almost understand but uniforms ???? Do they sell them afterwards eg. </p> <p>For Sale - Firefighters uniform, one careful owner, may have some water and soot stains and be a little sweaty. Will pay for itself with a couple of hen nights. Supplied with free helmet! </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/now-the-fire-service-personnel-are-due-to-strike/page/3#post-1733859 Mon, 23 Aug 2010 09:15:34 +0000 Junkyard 1733859@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>Here on Merseyside, we have a fireman rideing a motorbike with Thunderbird water tanks stuck on the sides, seems to work ok on the video i saw, but we also still want big red fire engines. </p> <p></blockquote><br /> Most callouts [80%*] are nuisance calls with mino fires so they send the bikes to put these out as it is so much more cost effective to do it this wat than send a tender.</p> <p>* small fires started by kids etc the figure quoted ,in a motorbike mag of all places, seemed quite high to me. </p>