antigee en-US Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:06:12 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://singletrackworld.com/forum/search.php http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3173630 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:56:11 +0000 D0NK 3173630@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>She was flashed by a car coming from her right and just pulled straight out in front of my mate</blockquote>Happens a lot I'm sure some drivers who I'm keeping pace with, flash cars that are waiting in side streets just to try and get me T-boned.<br /> <blockquote>Hmm.. so what you and Imabigkidnow seem to be saying is that I should roll up to the junction looking right, not because I intend to do anything with that information straight away, but because it is a reassuring body language signal to the drivers on the main road that I have seen them?</blockquote>dead right, sacres the bejeesus out of me when someones flying up a side road towards the road I'm on, only looking left.<br /> "look this way...look this way,lookthiswaylookthiswayLOOKTHISWAY!ohshiiiii...oh they stopped, phew" </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3173602 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:49:34 +0000 richmtb 3173602@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Pretty sure there was nothing that cyclist could have done differently other than be riding at half the speed (which isn't really the answer either)</p> <p>Brake or swerve though thats an interesting one. I've spent years mountain biking training my instinct away from braking when the shit hits the fan. As a result my first instinct on a bike is always to try and steer out of trouble. I wonder if it the wrong instinct for the road though </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3173297 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:32:29 +0000 IanMunro 3173297@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Yeah it does seem like a lot. My guess is that our internal perception of how time passes in these situations is quite often different to reality. I guess that internally we estimate a response time based on when we perceive an incident has started, but exclude the time it takes to recognise the incident.</p> <p>There's some details here -<br /> <a href="http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/reactiontime.html">http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/reactiontime.html</a></p> <p>One interesting point is that your reaction time also increases if you have a variety of options to choose from. I.e steer or brake. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3173290 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:30:43 +0000 Cougar 3173290@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>1.5 seconds is a scarily long time. jeepers </blockquote></p> <p>This is why there's pile-ups on motorways. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3173257 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:23:48 +0000 TandemJeremy 3173257@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>interesting ian.</p> <p>If you are watching for them to move with your hands already on the brake I would have thought the 0.25 second nearer. as all you have to do is see the movement and grab the brake 1.5 seconds is a scarily long time. jeepers </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3173256 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:23:18 +0000 Cougar 3173256@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Pretty easy to be an expert when the hazard is presented to you on video and in a series of freeze-frame images. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3173235 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:17:48 +0000 turboferret 3173235@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Cycling in India, the chances of anyone at the side of the road pulling out on you, or cutting across you is about 75% <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif" title=":roll:" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p> <p>I ride automatically expecting everyone to be trying to kill me, and for it to be perfectly accepted. If that scenario had cropped up I probably would have combined a bit of a swerve to the left and honking to cut between the van and the golf. However that would have meant the Focus would have T-boned me good and proper <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_eek.gif" title="8O" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p> <p>I think that the chances of the cyclist avoiding both vehicles even with reactions of a ninja are pretty slim, just glad he seemed to get away pretty much unscathed.</p> <p>Cheers, Rich </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3173165 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:01:52 +0000 IanMunro 3173165@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>graham - thats including the time to get your foot from throttle to break - if you have your hands on the brakes already you should be able to get the brakes on in under 1/4 second</blockquote></p> <p>Reaction time for an expected simple stimulus is around 0.25s.<br /> You can have a go here - <a href="http://www.mathsisfun.com/games/reaction-time.html">http://www.mathsisfun.com/games/reaction-time.html</a></p> <p>HOWEVER this is for a very simple stimulus that you mind is totally focused on.<br /> So if the problem is were to be made even slightly more complicated - say you had to click when the word red is displayed, the reactions times will increase markedly due to the extra cognitive processing. Add in the amount of visual processing required to detect real-world situations and the figures rise significantly.<br /> For reference accident reconstructions use a figure of 1.5 seconds for reaction response time. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3173027 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:37:12 +0000 billysugger 3173027@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>But yeah, I see your general point</blockquote></p> <p>You're not that STW. I take it back. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172994 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:30:04 +0000 Junkyard 3172994@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>If i prepared to avoid every car that did not obey the highway code it would be a very long journey to word done at about walking speed.<br /> You cant react to that we all see cars do that [ prepare to turn right] - granted I try to make eye contact to make sure they have seen me but at that junction you also cant see behind the van to see whether the car there will pull out so I may not have done. Would have covered the brakes but am i meant to crawl through/past every junction just in case?<br /> Braking late would not have helped the cyclist either IMHO </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172985 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:28:30 +0000 GrahamS 3172985@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>graham - thats including the time to get your foot from throttle to break</blockquote></p> <p>Ah I see. </p> <p>Still as you say the cyclist had two obvious potential hazards to consider, once he could see past the van that turned in front of him. Not unreasonable that he may have concentrated more on the silver car pulling out from the left as they had less visibility of him compared to the black car staring directly at his flashing front lights. </p> <p>I think he did pretty well to manage any kind of brake or swerve in that situation. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172984 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:28:22 +0000 mintimperial 3172984@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>I am looking for the lessons to learn</blockquote></p> <p>Call me contrary if you like, but I can't help thinking that, just possibly, the people who really need to learn lessons from that video are, perhaps, the ones in the cars... </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172967 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:25:53 +0000 thisisnotaspoon 3172967@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I agree with TJ (ish) </p> <p>In an ideal world you'd stop and not hit/be hit by the golf, but in the real world if there had been time to react to the golf turning 9there's not really, theres only a second between it crosing it's give way line and the cyclist hitting the floor) you'd probably compleltey infront of it, which in hindsight might not have been a bad thing as youd not end up under the focus!</p> <p>So yes, TJ is completely right, but in reality, short of cycling at a fraction of the speed (which he shouldn't have to do when it's not his fault) there's nothing the cyclist could do, the whole thing happened within his reaction time. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172961 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:24:47 +0000 DezB 3172961@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Ride in the gutter? He might've got through then <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_wink.gif" title=";-)" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172957 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:22:27 +0000 TandemJeremy 3172957@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>graham - thats including the time to get your foot from throttle to break - if you have your hands on the brakes already you should be able to get the brakes on in under 1/4 second </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172953 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:21:49 +0000 CharlieMungus 3172953@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>Guys - I am neither blaming the cyclist nor saying it could have been avoided - I am looking for the lessons to learn</blockquote></p> <p>Only lesson here, is 'pass on the left'. 99% of people expect that. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172945 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:20:02 +0000 TandemJeremy 3172945@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Guys - I am neither blaming the cyclist nor saying it could have been avoided - I am looking for the lessons to learn </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172940 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:19:04 +0000 jam bo 3172940@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>meh, loads of time. should of bunny-hopped it. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172939 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:18:59 +0000 GrahamS 3172939@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>reaction time is around 1/4 second</blockquote></p> <p>Is it? That seems kinda short.</p> <p>The official stopping distance is 40ft at 20mph with half of that being "thinking time".</p> <p>I make that about 0.68 seconds. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172933 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:17:35 +0000 mintimperial 3172933@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I would definitely have been mince in that situation. No way I could have avoided it. Videos like this put me right off the idea of commuting to work on my bike. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172930 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:16:03 +0000 TandemJeremy 3172930@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>reaction time is around 1/4 second</p> <p>Stumpy - thats my point. what can be learnt?</p> <p>Crazylegs - I have also been in that situation and a combination of alerting the driver, swerving and braking prevented a collision. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172929 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:15:57 +0000 stumpy01 3172929@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I have to say that my first thought when i watched the video was 'that car is turning, why isn't the cyclist reacting?'</p> <p>But, I was looking for an incident as that was the point of the video being posted. Perhaps the rider was looking further down the road and hadn't perceived the danger, perhaps he thought the car was positioning itself but not actually going to keep going. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172919 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:14:28 +0000 crazy-legs 3172919@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>TJ, I've been in a similar incident - you don't even have time to react never mind go through the whole thing of "oh look, he's not stopping where he should do, he's still turning, I'll look this way to check it's clear for my emergency manoeuvre, now I'll brake, swerve, shout a pithy comment and ride happily on my way".</p> <p>It's a case of FUUUUU-thump.</p> <p> <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_rolleyes.gif" title=":roll:" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172916 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:14:06 +0000 GrahamS 3172916@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>going thru a junction like that I would have both hands on the brakes and be doing my best to watch both cars closely</blockquote></p> <p>Hard to know what to do for best there though TJ. If he had braked harder then he could have been completely T-boned by the black car instead of just a back-wheel clip.</p> <p>Also, what is the Highway Code reaction time? About a second isn't it? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172914 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:14:02 +0000 TandemJeremy 3172914@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Ok - it was just a discussion point. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172896 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:11:50 +0000 Lifer 3172896@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Look at the time TJ that's not even a second for the whole sequence </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172893 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:11:26 +0000 GrahamS 3172893@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>You're so <strike>money supermarket</strike> STW Graham.</blockquote></p> <p>I'm trying to be clear - not argumentative. Honest. <img src="http://singletrackworld.com/forum/my-plugins/bbcode-buttons/default/icon_redface.gif" title=":oops:" class="bb_smilies" alt=""/> </p> <p><blockquote>Just don't still be rolling up to junctions looking left when there's traffic approaching from your right and we'll all be happy</blockquote></p> <p>Hmm.. so what you and Imabigkidnow seem to be saying is that I should roll up to the junction looking right, not because I intend to do anything with that information straight away, but because it is a reassuring body language signal to the drivers on the main road that I have seen them?</p> <p>Interesting. I hadn't thought of that aspect. Makes sense I guess.</p> <p>Doubt it makes much odds on the main Give Way I cross every day though. The main road there is a 60 so they don't exactly get a lot of time to assess body language. Plus the roll up to the junction is uphill and hidden behind a wall.</p> <p>But yeah, I see your general point. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172883 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:10:22 +0000 TandemJeremy 3172883@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>dez - your second image there I would already be taking avoiding action as he has started the manoeuvre. Even in the first from the speed of the car I would be anticipating it</p> <p>To me things like this the key thing afterwards is to look at the incident and to try to understand why it happened and what yo can do to avoid it.</p> <p>Of course one difficulty here is that I would also want to be watching the car turning left from the side road which might split your attention but going thru a junction like that I would have both hands on the brakes and be doing my best to watch both cars closely - looking at the top of the front tyre is a good tip </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/4#post-3172852 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:05:35 +0000 DezB 3172852@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Ah, I see you've already admitted your mistake. Look at the times here.<br /> Not "well over a second" by any stretch.<br /> <img src="http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/dezb99/Junk/bikehit.jpg"> </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172851 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:05:29 +0000 AlexSimon 3172851@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>This is quite an impressive linked video too:</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWENoBDxuS4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWENoBDxuS4</a></p> <p>Indignant squeaky-voiced weegie ned: "Ye seen me indakaten. Ye seen me f**kin indakaten ya stupit c***"</p> <p>Yeah, I'm not sure you've entirely grasped exactly how the indicating thing works there pal. Specifically, it doesn't actually allow you to pass directly through other road users</p> <p>The AirZound was probably more useful than the camera on that one! </blockquote></p> <p>I've absolutely no idea how he manages to stay so calm when faced by such stupidity and obnoxiousness. The guy is clearly going to do it again and again.</p> <p><blockquote>I probably would've got a beating there as I would have totally lost it! </blockquote><br /> Me too - although there were a few cyclists around for support.</p> <p>Every time I cycle on a busy main road, there's a stupid 'creep past, pull in, stop' or someone will pass when the road is too narrow and cars are coming the other way, forcing them to pull in before I'd like.</p> <p>I don't know how people manage it day-in day-out. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172821 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:59:10 +0000 Mrs Toast 3172821@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>I've been beeped at in my car at t-junctions because I've not pulled out in front of cyclists that have right of way, or because I refuse to overtake a cyclist dangerously. I've said it before, but a lot of drivers don't seem to register cyclists as living human beings with thoughts, feelings and families, but as irritating objects that just get in the way. :s </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172790 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:53:42 +0000 TandemJeremy 3172790@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>appeared to me to pull to left and brake </blockquote></p> <p>Hmmm- maybe you are right after another look </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172783 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:52:21 +0000 TandemJeremy 3172783@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Dez </p> <p>read it in conjunction with<br /> <blockquote>While the drivers clearly are 100% at fault both morally and legally </blockquote></p> <p>However from the car starting the dangerous manoeuvre to the impact is well over a second.</p> <p> In similar circumstances a shout at the car has caused them to stop and the cyclist does not appear to even touch his brakes / shout or swerve </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172781 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:51:47 +0000 antigee 3172781@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>TandemJeremy - Member<br /> Just to go back to the original vid.</p> <p>The cyclist didn't appear to take any avoiding action of the first car the one that turned right into him<br /> </blockquote></p> <p>appeared to me to pull to left and brake </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172779 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:51:22 +0000 Imabigkidnow 3172779@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><blockquote>So your first instinct is to look left? Don't know about anyone else but I roll up to a junction looking right when I know this lane is clear I'll then look left. I'm talking about people who look to get fliers from give way junctions, not stop junctions.</blockquote></p> <p>hear hear</p> <p>If I'm approaching a GIVE WAY for me, I'll always look at the direction of closest oncoming traffic first (i.e. right -in the uk, unless it's a one way from the left).</p> <p>As a driver + cyclist that's suffered T-bones in both forms of transit, I know that this will provide confidence to the oncoming drivers/cyclist/motorcyclists so that they won't feel quite so much of a need to slam on the brakes. Once I've actually stopped I'll start looking other directions. Even if I don't need to stop, I make sure I do double take left-right-left-right, just keeping an eye out for dodgy peds/cyclist on the pavement as much as anything that have taken me by surprise before I even think about crossing the white line. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172772 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:50:53 +0000 IanMunro 3172772@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Does Edinburgh have a speakers corner? </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172763 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:49:42 +0000 antigee 3172763@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>junction outside our house regular minor shunts - cardrivers look right only and pull out turning left to join main rd - bus at bus stop, couple of cars stopped behind it - so bang </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172754 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:48:21 +0000 DezB 3172754@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p><em>The cyclist didn't appear to take any avoiding action of the first car the one that turned right into him.</em></p> <p>Holy shit, I hope that's a joke.<br /> If not, that's gonna be a TJ classic. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172744 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:46:10 +0000 TandemJeremy 3172744@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>Just to go back to the original vid.</p> <p>The cyclist didn't appear to take any avoiding action of the first car the one that turned right into him.</p> <p>appears to have well more than a second to shout/ hit the brakes/ swerve.</p> <p>While the drivers clearly are 100% at fault both morally and legally I would be well cross with myself if I got hit there as there was time and room to take some avoiding action / alert the car driver.</p> <p>I have shouted at car drivers about to make that move and they have stopped before hitting me. </p> http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/youtube-cyclist-knocked-off-bike/page/3#post-3172717 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:39:32 +0000 billysugger 3172717@http://singletrackworld.com/forum/ <p>You're so <strike>money supermarket</strike> STW Graham.</p> <p>Just don't still be rolling up to junctions looking left when there's traffic approaching from your right and we'll all be happy. </p>