CTRL+C, CTRL+V from Santa Cruz’ website…
Fresh off the boat, specifications subject to change without notice, don’t expect to buy one until around Interbike, say hello to the Tallboy.
There are probably hundreds of good reasons to maintain some degree of secrecy during the development of a bike. In the past, we’ve always cleaved pretty tight to the “keep it secret until fully baked” line, and have had mixed degrees of success with that approach. The problem is, that when you develop your own prototypes in-house, and ride test the things right out your door, and have to ride through urban neighborhoods to hit well known trails where people recognize you from the barbecue last weekend while undertaking said testing, well, it is not that easy to keep secrets.
Especially since mountain bikers are generally over-curious to the point of obsessive about new pieces of geekware, and tend as a group to be toting technology in the forms of cell phone cams and/or mini video recorders. Which they then go straight home and upload onto mtbr.com. Ahhh, technology.
Anyway, we decided when we began the lead up to the final development for this new 29″ bike (yes, we really are going to call it the Tallboy. Here’s hoping some people have a sense of humor) that we’d play with a slightly more open hand. But even still, we were leery of showing off the aluminum prototype mules we were riding around because for the most part our prototype mules are butt ugly. They exist to get the suspension characteristics right and the geometry where we want it and that’s about it. Usually, they are fabricated out of whatever tubes or hacked up old frames we have lying around. The upside to such drab and awkward prototypes is that people usually don’t pay them much mind because they just look like dull grey beaters. The downside, aside from the heinous real world expense of each frame, is that people who know to look for prototypes can spot them a mile away. Which then means we have to cobb up fake Cannondale or Specialized decals to throw people off the scent.
Anyway, by this spring, after many many months of riding other bikes, comparing them, fabricating our own mules, revising them, comparing them to each other, revising again, the mules were about where we wanted them. They rode nicely, handled well, and the suspension behavior was right where most of us wanted it to be. Cockpit sizing and ergonomics were dialed, and it was time to begin the next phase, which would ultimately lead to something we could take pictures of.
That said, we’re still a long way from final production, and there could be many small tweaks between now and then. So, don’t be too hasty in the rush to judgement. Still, for the most part, the following photos are going to be pretty damn close to what hits the showrooms in the fall:
105mm VPP travel, carbon fiber, target weight “very light”, missing the super-sano little stainless steel chainstay protector plate, some graphic tweaks still to come, this is the very first sample frame. Showed up here friday mid-day.
Tallboy, like the can.
Top tube, top view. Tapered head tube – 1 1/8″ inset upper headset bearing, 1.5″ lower. Whole lotta swoop going on in that top tube…
Finally, all built up. Still missing that sweet little steel plate behind the chainrings. Pedals added just to make certain readers grind their teeth with frustration over misplaced aesthetics. Remember, this is just a photo.
Just for the sake of perspective, here’s a special gritty cell phone quality pic (all these images brought to you by the mack daddy photographic precision of an iphone wielded by someone who’d had three cups of coffee that morning) of the last rev mule standing next to the shiny new kid. Note how we’ve left it behind the new bike to shroud the true fugliness…
And there she be.
Things to note:
Carbon fiber frame
Next generation VPP suspension (with grease fittings and angular contact bearings and carbon fiber upper link and aluminum axles and all that good stuff)
Should be really light
And really stiff
Probably available in orange
And maybe another color too
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Weirdly they have braced up the drive side chainstay/seat stay junction and not the brake side.
Anyhow,
Lets hope it’s not a complete disaster of a bike like the 951. The linkage on the 951 drives the shock so hard that riders over 12stone cant get springs heavy enough. Kovarik had the stiffest spring that Fox make and the compression damping turned right up and it was still blowing through the travel. The CRC/Intense team are having to go back to M6’s until the problems are sorted out.
jamie, your are such a GEEK!
They’ve braced the driveside to balance the already braced (by the long strut) no drive side.
Why would Santa Cruz get the leverage rate wrong due to a totally seperate company doing so? It’s not like Intense don’t get things wrong in other areas (tyre clearance on full compression on M6’s, swinglink mount failing on Socoms, bearing life even compared to other early VPP bikes, frame alignment etc etc….)
Well, I’ll demo one!
Jamie – Driveside is braced because the support up-front only runs down the non-drive side.
“I wish i was a little bit taller, wish i was a baller, wish i had a girl if i did i would call her…..”
I wonder if anyone will actually buy one in the UK.
Not apple+c, apple+v? 🙁
cmd c, cmd v on my keyboard. no (apple) symbol! ;-(
Jim the saint – interesting feedback on the 951. What is the source of your information?
Who would buy one? Tall people in the UK 🙂 makes sense!
Brant – it was Apple+C etc but I figured people might not get it 🙂
Ed-O – I could tell you but then I’d have to kill you, actually Dave from Stendec who does the spannering for CRC/Intense would kill me, ooops.
sillyoldman – I wasn’t implying that just because Intense have made mistakes that Santa Cruz will as well. What I was trying to illustrate is that the VPP system runs on much lower tolerances than all most all other suspension systems. If the rockers on a VPP bike are a bit too short or long from the ideal length then it will have a massive effect on the suspension action. For example if you rode a mk1 Blur you’d notice that that the bike shoots through the mid stroke, it was quite often referred to as a ‘breaking through ice sensation’. The ‘new’ Blur handles just fine though, yet if you look at the shock linkages it’s almost impossible to see the differences between the two Blurs.
So although Santa Cruz seem to have the VPP concept working really well at the moment what I was trying to elude to was that I hope that the addition of 29’er wheels won’t raise any handling problems in a suspension system that that at best can be described as a bit difficult to work with.
Get a life Jim FFS!
fauxbyfour – rocketdog’s comment was said in jest as he’s an old riding buddy from when I ran a bike shop in the W.Midlands. You on the other hand are just coming across as a troll.
If you find people discussing the finer points of bikes offensive may I recommend that in the future you ignore my posts as they will always be well informed and well thought out. Infact if you don’t like people discussing bikes maybe you should just avoid this website altogether as there are plenty of people who post on here who know a lot about bikes and that will obviously upset you.
In other words do one, FFS.
Ta for the info Jim TS…it explains why I never liked the Intense VPP bikes Ive tried to own and sadly why I still dream of a DW link carbon 29er.
@alias: check out the Turner Sultan 29er. It’s not carbon but it is DW-Link. I had a blat with one on the weekend and it was very nice.
Looks pretty nice to me!
What they really mean is:
” We’re so soked with how good this looks, we can’t help ourselves any longer and have to shout about it ”
🙂
Jim and Faux, get a room.
Back on topic, pretty frame, nice graphics, stupid wheel size.
Do you think they will part-x my BlurLT, 9mth old with one careful wheelsofftheground adverse owner :-/
Love it!
However, it won’t replace my beloved Ventana El Capitan.
I love this! I have had so much “abuse” from the guys at stif/jungle about 29ers….and look what they now have to sell!
Matthew
Stif and Jungle sell Niner Bikes! how can they take the mikey out of anyone?
alias owns a sultan dw!
Hey Tang you got there first :)….Yes Thermo thanks for the tip….My Sultan is the best FS Ive owned …though I dream of a CARBON DW 29er….the Sultan rools in metal but could be toppled from his throne by a lighter carbon frame IMHO!